scope receiver holes not square

Discussion in 'Equipment Discussions' started by tbrice23, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    I'm mounting a vortex viper on a savage 111 LRH and noticed after zeroing my windage is ALMOST MAXED OUT and have a shadow of the objective bell with proper eye relief.
    Now when I mount scopes the receiver is leveled and strapped down then square the one piece base mount rings and scope square level and plumb with a plumb bob( plumb line) at 40 yards so im sure the every thing is square level and plumb.
    I switched rings front to back, replaced the base with different brand base no help at all. So either the base holed or the barrel ( maybe the brake) is crooked.
    So ive decided to go with Burris zee rings.
    My question is once I center my reticle to the rifle impact grouping zerro the scope is no longer square with the bore? How will this effect my ballistic charts when it askes for scope cant? And how will this effect my dial ups after 300 yards or so?
    Any help or info very much appreciated.
     
  2. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    If you did a live fire zero, then most likely the barrel is installed crooked, or barrel vibration is throwing your shots off of bore sight, or both. I see these issues often in production rifles. Crooked base installation seems unlikely.

    You can diagnose what's out of alignment by using an 18" metal ruler. Place the ruler along one side of the receiver with 12" or so extending beyond the barrel nut. Holding the ruler flat against the receiver, measure the distance between the end of the ruler and the barrel. Now repeat this measurement on the other side of the receiver. If the two measurements are not equal, the barrel is installed crooked. You can then calculate the angular offset.

    Be sure to buy Burris Signature Zee rings. You will probably need to use offset inserts on the from and back rings to correct the misalignment.

    Regardless of how the scope is installed, you won't have a canting problem if you use an anti-cant indicator that is accurately aligned to the turret axes, You may have a range dependent aiming error, which you can eliminate using the Reticle Alignment Tool that HighPowerOptics sells. That tool also has a very accurate spirit level.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013

  3. yobuck

    yobuck Well-Known Member

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    another option would be to use a leupold or redfield base and ring setup.
    the windage error could be adjusted with the windage adjustment in the base
    itself to a point where the scope adjustment is centered. it would be less
    complicated for the average individual than fooling around with the scope shims and wouldnt be affected in the event you decided to remove or change scopes. every gun dosent require a piccatiny base and ring setup. some of the older ones still work very well and possibly better in cases like this one.
     
  4. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of how the scope is installed, you won't have a canting problem if you use an anti-cant indicator that is accurately aligned to the turret axes, You may have a range dependent aiming error, which you can eliminate using the Reticle Alignment Tool that HighPowerOptics sells. That tool also has a very accurate spirit level.[/QUOTE]
    I use Darrel Hollands cant indicators on all my scopes. I orderrd Zee signature 30mm rings last nite. There is no way im putting the leopold windage bases on anything.
    I've been researching but to be sure do the 30mm burris zee signature rings come with one set or two sets of bias inserts and the regular inserts?
     
  5. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    The rings that you ordered come with two sets of offset inserts.
     
  6. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent, thank you.

    I just can not stand when my equipment isn't square with the world.
     
  7. geargrinder

    geargrinder Well-Known Member

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    It's fairly common problem with Savage and Remington actions. My understanding is that it comes from warping due to the heat treating process.

    There are two ways to fix it. Fix it with adjustable rings (Burris Signatures or windage adjustable rears), or send it to SSS and have Fred straighten it in his jig.
     
  8. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    JMB ballistics ask for sight offset. This criteria for calculating drops and windage is where I might get into trouble on long shots . How much does sight offset affect
    these calculations?
     
  9. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    It's a small but measurable effect. Sight offset usually comes from the rings, but base misalignment and barrel misalignment can also be a factor. For most rifle set ups, the offset is less than 0.1", but can be larger if the reticle is not aligned properly. Play with the JBM calculator to determine the magnitude of the offset.

    Using the Reticle Alignment Tool from HighPowerOptics will eliminate this error.
     
  10. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    I received my sign. Zee rings and after re mounting the scope about seven times with no improvement measured the -10 and +10 inserts. They all measured the same. Burris is sending me new ones. Burris needs to take the inspection sticker off of their packages!

    Does anyone know torque specs on these?

    Is there supposed to be a space between bottom of ringbase and top of weaver base? I do not like air between my base and rings.
     

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  11. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    That astonishing. The offset inserts are injection-molded plastic. Maybe they had new molds made. Where on the insert did you measure the thickness? It should be measured in the middle, next to the +10 or -10.

    Yes, the Zee rings grab the edge of the rail. I haven't had any problems with that design.
     
  12. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    Yes next to the#. Measured with analog and digital calipers and then with my micrometer. Did a search and found others with same problem. When I called the lady didn't sound surprised. She didnt ask me any questions and was really quick to apologies and sounded as if she had replacements right beside her.
     
  13. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    .116" on all inserts .
     

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  14. tbrice23

    tbrice23 Well-Known Member

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    Beside the point Bruce I noticed you sell Bushnell 6500 elite 4.5-30. That is my favorite scope next to my NF. I was very very tempted to buy another one for the savage111 but the receiver is so looong it seemed the vortex would fit better. The 6500 has a smaller mounting length and fit a LA 700 better. So it stays on my Sendero.