Schmidt & Bender PMI

[3sixbits]

Pete what can a fellow do for a rail for My SOCK-O (SAKO) action rifle. I would love to hang that 4X16 S&B on this rifle but have been stumped so far with a 56mm objective on the NIGHTFORCE scope, 30mm tube. Does not help having a light varmint taper barrel either. I would love to figure away around the integral mount system with out having to have my neck stretched to see through the scope! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[älg]

brown dog, that pic is great ¡¡ Thanks, it really clarifies the situation and sadly puts me in the need to get one of those scopes.

i am currently using a swarovsky 3-12 x 50 with tds reticle and the crosshair gets a little too thick for my taste when at max power. it does not seem to be the same with the SB.

Just one thing, who makes 34 mm rings besides badger ord.? and i understand they can be used with ordinary bases, without needing to go to picatinny?

 

[Pete Lincoln]

Älg. if you take a look at Brown Dogs reticle picture you will see what i mean by the reticle is thick. see the size of the 308 bullet holes, notice that the reticle apparently covers more of the target than is the width of the bullet holes, thats what i mean. I have several rifles that stick thier groups into the size of a 308 bullet hole, but i have to concentrate like mad to get the reticle in exactly the same place as i believe the reticle width covers .1mil(1cm) at 100m. which means its easy to stretch what would be a 7mm group out to 12mm ish almost doubling the group size, not that 12mm is anything to be scoffed at, but shooting tiny groups bench rest style is the home of the target reticle. Luckily i don't spend much time at a bench and i have every confidence that where ever i put the cross thats where the bullet goes. For long range hunting of banging steel gongs or putting holes in a figure 11 target, the reticles in the S&B PMII are just perfect. Bagder, TPS, Talley EAW all make 34mm rings. Badgers are the best.
3sixbits. personaly i would have the strange tapered dovetail on that Sako machined straight and i'd put a picatinny rail over the top of it, its an easy job to do, if you wheren't so far off i would do it for you whilst you made us breakfast. Picatinny is the easiest , most adaptable and most reliable mounting system available.
Pete

 

[3sixbits]

Thanks Pete. Your right about the rail. Is there any chance of a pic of the reticule you designed for S&B. When is that new 5X25 due out and what price range? I've been in touch with Near Manufacturing and he holds out hope for me on a rail if the 597 action is the same as the Mod 75 action. I'm doing a dimensioned drawing to fax to him tomorrow. I could have have bough a Hall or STOLLE action what I've got in rings that don't work! I wish I had of milled the darn thing in the first place but hindsight is always 20/20. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Pete Lincoln]

the 5-25x is likely to be $2600 ish( recomended retail of $2900 ish ). Pete

 

[Brown Dog]

alg,

You have mail! -I've sent you some targets and stuff:

I used to have the 3-12x50 Swarovski with TDS too. (I also found this reticle a little too thick -fine for hunting but too thick for plinking!).

The S&B crosshair line is 7mm thick at 100m, the TDS is 17mm at the same distance (I could not comfortably take on 2cm target dots at 100m with the TDS).

With the TDS I came to feel that it was more important to zero the range bar for, 200 or 300metres rather than the main 100m crosshair at 100m (and thus I would accept whatever small error the 100m crosshair may have at 100m as a result.)

I did a lot of subtension work with the TDS, based on additional info I asked for from Swarovski.

I've sent you 2 targets that I created to allow this, one for 200m one for 300m. (Print them A4 size or the scaling will go wrong!)

At 200m, use the main crosshair to centre on the main part of the target [the aiming marks are scaled to reflect the subtension of the TDS crosshair at 200 or 300m]. (I found aiming precisely for zeroing to be easier with the main crosshair). Adjust your MPI onto the dot at the bottom of the target (that's exactly whereYour 200m range bar is pointing!).

For the 300m target do the same (although you have to draw your own dot below the target -it says how far on the target title).

Also included an excel spreadsheet for calculating the subtension of the range barsbars at 'non-standard' ranges.

Hope they're of use (at least until you sort yourself out with a S&B!)

 

[Pete Lincoln]

Matt you sure its .07 i thought it was .1? eitherway, if small groups ist what you are after,, target reticle is the way to go, you wann hit what your aiming at in all light and weather conditions,I'll recomend the S&B with any variation of the mildot ( P3 Klein or P4) the Bryant(sp) is to cluttered for me, but i believe subtends less with the cross. Pete

 

[Brown Dog]

Pete,
Got to admit, 0.7 was out of the AESP. Maybe the civ (ie non-AI)version is slightly fatter?

(I've been squinting at my pic above, could be either -reckon I could fit 3 crosshair thicknesses into one of the white dots (also 2cm) but I don't reckon that it's as thin as the 7.62 holes ?!)

 

[nowler]

i say ditch the s & b and get yourself a nightforce nxs. you won't be dissappointed. when brown dog gets up north again and sees through mines, he'll be trading before he knows it.

nxs all the way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Pete Lincoln]

Nowler, bet you a case of beer he doesn't. the S&B is a better product with better optics. What the NXS does have going for it is reticle options, a combined paralax and reticle illumination control and the price. but thats it, the down side of the NXS is, multiple turning with the elevation turret, the whole rear end of the scope turns when you up or down the x's.
The S&B PMII are in a class of thier own. maybe not enough reticle choices, but I AM WORKING ON THAT, and yep i aint to keen on the 4th turret for reticle illumination. But all in all, IMHO the PMII is a better scope for most applications than the NXS, and ive used both. If i was bench rest shooting, or something like, I'd lean to the NXS, nbut for everything else, hunting, sniping, practical or tactical rifle, then i'd go PMII..
Lets see what Brown Dog has to say when he has compared the two.. You ready for the start of the buck season?
Pete

 

[ds]

Pete,

+1 for Derek, I do have both NXS and S&B PM2 4-16x50. I am trying to trade the S&B to get another NXS.

Where in Germany are you? Iam in Czech Republic, (next door). In fact I was born next door to you Lancashire. If you are intersted in some competitions here (tactical type) drop me a line, we get some German/US competitiors at some shoots. That said the better comps have got a bit rare this year. If you come I will buy you a proper Czech beer (expensive at 10p a pint).

If the need arises can I mail you on how to get my S&B to the US.

David.

 

[nowler]

hi pete

i'll bet you a case of checky beer for anything you want /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

i have 2 nxs scopes. a 12-42 milldot and a 8-32 ch-3. both are used for f-class and long-range bambi busting and i absolutely love them to bits. a lot of the keepers and competitors i shoot with have s & b scopes and yes they are excellent and better than nightforce in some ways, but not for what i use them for..... i do believe that s & b has better low-light optics, but i also think they are over priced and could do with conducting more market research to see what they could do to increase their target audience.

better reticles and more magnification, without going to 34m tubes would be a good start?

as for the buck season, i have been out doing some recces, but they are still in velvet up in this part of the woods. another month and i'll start knocking them over. looks like there are some decent heads shaping up though.

as for ds' beer offer, i've been corresponding with him for donkeys and the only thing he's offered me is to kick my butt in one of his sniper competitions /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif count yourself lucky! i may have to go over there and show these checkies whats what /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

but seriously, personal preference is nightforce any day of the week. i do have 3 loopy tacticals and they are excellent as well. i don't think i'd buy a s & b out of their current product line.

cheers

 

[Pete Lincoln]

Nowler, now the great test of a mans intelligence is how much he agrees with you.. right? spot on with the S&B requirement for some market research.. ive been telling em for years to do certain things, for instance,, a 4-16x42 PMII, and i have been getting the answer ..quote" Our market research team do not think that there is a market for this configuration of PMII" .. well funny that ther are now making one.. i had the head of their technical design team say tome at the IWA ..quote.." if we had listened to you more often, i think we would have gathered probably 50% of the NXS sales for S&B" I finaly have S&B listening tome and a couple of other guys and finaly we are getting some where, its been a German mentality thing, " howz kud anyvon vant anyzing zat wie do not alzready produze," they have treid to persuade a market that what they have is what should be wanted instead of producing products tailored to certain markets, well they have finaly caught on and are not going to miss the last bus if i can help it..
for your applications the NXS is a fine scope, especialy for the F class, and i would choose an NXS over the S&B for that application. now with regards to price.. whoe sells the S&B's cheapest in the UK,,Sportsmans or York Guns. so the S&B's are only over priced if you don't know some one who will supply cheaper than them.
Don't forget with the PMII you are getting a scope that is produced by expensive German technicians and not by cheap far eastern technicians, and that is a lot of what you are paying for, plus the glass quality is better.
Now i happen to think that the 34mm tube is just great, there are plenty of rings avalible. and it has certain advantages.
Deer,ive seen a couple of bucks clean here already, but i'm a lot further south than you, Scotland in April is like here in February, season here starts May 1st.
Czeck beer,, now DS that sounds like an invite, you have nice looking women in your country !!aaarrooooga !!..
what you after for that 4-16x, we might be able to do a swap.. I'm in Northern Germany, near Osnabrück.
Pete

 

[3sixbits]

Pete: a check of the S&B web-site does not show the 5-25 scope under new products! When can we expect to see a day-view on there web-site? I wonder why they have not offered the 4-16x42 or 50mm. PMII with the illuminated reticle? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif