Schmidt & Bender PMI

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by Gerald89, Mar 9, 2005.

  1. Gerald89

    Gerald89 Well-Known Member

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    Hello does anyone no if it is possible to replace the elevation turret on the S&M PMI 3-9X50 scopes?
    The standard ones only give 40clks @ 0.7cm @ 100M.
    I think there must be more adjustment available with the 30MM tube ?
    This is only enough to get out to 125Yards on the my .22LR
    or 550 yards on my .243 .

    Jeza
     
  2. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Thets verify we are talking about the same scope. 3-12x50PM? i haven't seen a 3-9x.
    same turrets as the precision hunter, varmint etc?
    the BDC cam is held in place by a screw on cap with a coin slot? yes it is possible to get a BDC cam that doesn't have a stop in it, that will give you the full range of use of the internal adjustment of the scope.
    Pete
     

  3. Gerald89

    Gerald89 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks pete

    Yes that is the one 3-12X50 PM .
    Where might I find one of those?
    You must have to be a bit careful to keep your zero position during multiple turns?
     
  4. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Hi mate, yep it will mean you have to watch out to keep your zero, but with a leupold and the others you have to do that anyway. I went to the PMII due to its 13 mils of adjustment in one turn.
    I'll get you a BDC cam with no stop ok, send me an email with your snail mail addy. I'll email my man at S&B and hopefully pick the BDC up of him next week at the IWA if he can get one that quick.
    your scope should be 1cm @100m clicks? that right too?
    Pete
     
  5. Brown Dog

    Brown Dog Writers Guild

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    Pete,

    Sparked a thought:

    Can you get hold of PM2 turrets engraved for 168gr 308? (been trying to proff AI ones at work without success!)




    Jeza,

    What was the eventual solution to your AW acquisition problems?
     
  6. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Yep. I can get em, i can also get blank ones so you can have em engraved for any trajectory. But i must say that i much prefer the original fractions of miliradian marked turrets. I do all my come ups in clicks and ive memorised the balistics for my 30-06 with regards to click requirements.What i would tend to have done is have my trajectory markings for whatever desired ranges engraved above the original markings. I'm on the lookout for a gravograph engraving machine for my workshop anyway, i can do you them like that when i get one.
    but if you want the original S&B marked cams i can get em .
    Pete
     
  7. älg

    älg Well-Known Member

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    Pete, do you know if they make the PMII only in a 34 mm tube? Which rings are you using?
     
  8. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    The variable PMII's are all 34mm tube. the 10x42 fixed is a 30mm tube. I'm using badger ordnance rings. They are the best 34mm rings on the market. I have tried others. I started with EAW 34mm swing of mounts, but the sods kept shooting loose, maybe had something to do with the fact that i was using a muzzle break on the rifle at the time. I then went to leupold quick release bases and 34mm rings that i manufactured my self. These worked fine. The problem was that i swaped the scope between several rifles and the distance between the quick release holes was different on long and short action rifles and on different actions. This is why i went to a picatinny rail and badger ord rings, i haven't looked back since. 100% return to zero. I can note the turret adjustments from a base zero for several rifles and swap the scope and be 100% on the money.
    The 34mm rings are not that much more expensive than 30mm and a 34mm tube is by no means a disadvantage.
    Pete
     
  9. älg

    älg Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Pete.
     
  10. Gerald89

    Gerald89 Well-Known Member

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    Hello pete,
    That would be good !
    After much research I found out the scope is 0.7cm @ 100M.
    Looking at the mechanism the cam is the part that sets the adjustment resolution ?
    If this is the case I would prefer to keep it the same but could easily live with 1cm.
    The scope serial n:- 219707
    email on its way.

    Brown dog,
    Yes the AW!
    My supplier comfirmed to me yesterday that the company will be carrying on where it left off and my rifle seems to be sitting there with a few parts missing.
    So as soon as they get back in there it should follow shortly!
    What an emotional roller coaster ride it has been ha ha.

    cheers jeza
     
  11. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Jaza, that be what ? 1/3 MOA at 100 yards. and yep t5he click is machined into the onderside of the BDC in the form of machined serations on those scopes. What reticle do you have in the thing?
    and if you are buying an AI, don't get that god awful sports match airgun scope mount they use, its a pile of crap. I cut mine up to mount an ACI with.also don't buy a PMII untill you spoke to me, i can under do York or Sportsmans by about 200 quid on the 4-16's and probably the same on the 3-12's.

    Pete
    pete
     
  12. Gerald89

    Gerald89 Well-Known Member

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    Pete , whats your workings out on the 1/3 moa thing I cant figure it out , is it not 6.4mm @ 100 yards !
    It has p1 bryant in it ( not that good for hold over)
    Are they really sports match !! I was thinking I would like to convert to weaver rail first is that advisable ? My AMT .22 has weaver built in .
    I picked up a nearly new PMII 3-12X50 for £600 at the local gun club good price I recon ?
     
  13. älg

    älg Well-Known Member

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    Pete, are you happy with the PMII? I just bought a leupold lps due to its low weigght, but may need to get another scope in a near future. I was thinking about a 4-16 x 50 ( I think that´s the one they make besides the 3-12) with a mil dot ret. My only concern is weigth since I don´t want to go with a very heavy scope.

    Do you think the PMII outperforms a nxs nightforce 3,5-15 x 50 ?
     
  14. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Jeza, sorry mate i misspelled your handle. all the scopes i have seen that are the same spec as yours have had .5cm clicks at 100M. i did the math from your .7cm to MOA in my head and came up with approx 1/3 MOA @100y as a guestimate. i think i added up wrong...its nearer 1/4. thats a product of a pain in the ass method, a 5 hour meeting followed by a 12 hour night shift, 4 hours kip and another 2 hour meeting. thats why i stick to .1 miliradian clicks and meters.its so much easier.

    1 actual MOA = 1.047 inches at 100 yards
    1 actual milliradian = 3.438 actual MOA
    1 actual milliradian = 3.600 inches at 100 yards
    1 actual MOA = .291 actual milliradians

    1 shooter's MOA = 1 inch per 100 yards of range
    1 shooter's MOA = .278 mils
    1 mil = 3.6 shooter's MOA
    is your 3-12x50 PMII with or without paralax.? if so you got it at about trade price less VAT. so thats about what i would expect for a used scope of thet conficuration. If you got the one with paralax adjustment you got a good deal and if its got reticle illumination its an even better deal seen financialy.The AI mounts are a pile of junk. the are alloy, will not return to zero, are too high, and yes i am sure they are sports match, look at the airgun mounts from sportsmatch, notice the exact likeness? The only way to go when it comes to mounting a PMII (or any other large or heavey scope for that matter) is with a picatinny rail and a set of decent rings. I can see the Bryant bieng usefull for what it was designed for, but i like the Klein (gen 2 mildot) best. gen 1 mildot is also good.

    Alg, im am more than happy with my PMII's. ive had a 3-12x50PMII illuninated mildot now for years, it has never failed once, (which can't be said for the leupolds i had before hand)its been on maybe 7 to 10 rifles and i would trust my life to the S&B PMII line of scopes. I have a 4-16x50 PMII with Mildot, a 4-16x50PMII with Klein and a 3-15x56 NXS on test at the moment.
    The S&B's are clearly slightly better optics. I like the 13miliradians of elevation in one turn. I don't like the NXS in that the whole rear end of the scope turns as you up the magnification, this is such a pain in thebutt when you use butler creek dust caps.
    If you are after shooting tiny groups in a bench rest style match, then the reticles on the PMII are to fatand cover more of the target area than my rifles are capable of shooting a group in to. but they are a sniper scope and as such a perfect hunting scope. and for me, i shoot maybe game to paper targets at a rate of 50 to 1, often at night, the retciles are just fine, It is possible to have S&B do a retcle swap however if you want a thinner one. My money is on the S&B. especialy when the 4-16x50PMII hits the market, ive one on order already. Pete [​IMG]