Savage action accurate ?

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by isu600rr, May 8, 2011.

  1. isu600rr

    isu600rr Active Member

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    of all this talk of savage actions and i having one, are the savage actions accurate enough for a 1000 + stick Mine is a stock action would i have to do anyting to it/> ? Blue printing even tho it has a floating bolt?
     
  2. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Yes they are accurate enough if they are true.(All or not).

    I recommend replacing the barrel nut with a shouldered barrel makeup for several reasons,
    It allows the use of a larger barrel breach end (1 1/4" instead of 1") and it eliminates the
    extra thread makeup. Also on a rifle made for specific use where changing barrels is
    not nessary. Also replace the recoil lug with an after market precision ground lug (The factory
    lugs are never the same thickness from one side to the other.

    Also the fact that the bolt head "Floats" does not make it square when its fired. It is not designed
    to automatically line up with the case head it just allows the bolt head to rotate while operating the
    bolt and should be checked for true and squared if nessary.

    I have had great success with setting up the Savages this way and I am convinced that It is a more
    consistant way of building an accurate rifle plus getting rid of the ugly barrel nut is a bonus in my
    opinion.

    J E CUSTOM
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2011

  3. Sennaspeed

    Sennaspeed Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely with JE Custom.

    I've done several nutless Savages and I've been happy with the results.

    Here is my latest.

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    LH Savage 111, pre-Accutrigger with a nutless 26" #2 Pacnor 3 groove 9 twist SS barrel chambered for the 280AI.
    It wears a Burris 4.5-14 FFII with a Tac-2 elevation knob in Weaver Tactical rings on a 20MOA EGW Picatinny base.
    Unfortunately it all sits in a Savage tupperware stock right now. It will eventually be put into a Stockade Hunting Sporter or a McMillan Savage Sporter.
     
  4. geargrinder

    geargrinder Well-Known Member

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    Real rifles have nuts.:D

    Here is my 300wsm Hart on a Savage 116 and my 338Edge McGowan on a short/long action 110.


    [​IMG]
     
  5. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    once again, if the thread is tightened on a shoulder not all the thread will be in tension. It's physics, and cannot be avoided with a ground thread (internal and external both). To seriously make a barrel as stiff as some folks think it is, the 1.25" end would have to be a minimum of 25% of the barrel length (once again physics) unless the complete barrel length was bedded (won't work as we all know by now). Secondly the 3/4" or so of barrel threads is not nearly enough to support the leverage of a heavy barrel that is 26" or more in length (Applied Mechanics 101). Even a barrel nut will not do this 100% (maybe 75%). A barrel nut pulls the threads forwards into complete contact with the female thread form while keeping the male thread in tension. This is known as "stretching the thread." A common practice is super precision thread applications. If you were to thread the muzzel and slip a tube over the barrel you would probably achive 90%+ support, as well as greatly increasing rigidity.

    Bench rest shooters like to use barrels in the 21" to 22" range because they are far more rigid (70% don't know this), and to make weight. The 3/4" of threads have an easier time supporting the leverage of the barrel hanging out there. If you make a mechanical drawing of the bolt to barrel assembly and put a 60K psi thrust on it in all directions you will see the barrel thread go all over the place with a shoulder lockup. The nut will also move a certain amount, but the difference is a fraction of the amount the shoulder lockup has as it's unsupported for most part.
    gary
     
  6. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    who made the white stock?
    gary
     
  7. Sennaspeed

    Sennaspeed Well-Known Member

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    Nice post Gary but I'll take fairly light contours in a shouldered barrel that shoots 1/2 MOA both for looks and for portability.

    Don't do BR so being able to discern the difference in accuracy potential between nutted and nutless isn't going to happen for me.
     
  8. KRP

    KRP Well-Known Member

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    Castrating a Savage is purely aesthetic.

    1000 yard accuracy will be affected much more by other components/assembly/ammo/shooter than by the "Savchestertonby" action you build on.
     
  9. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    Funny, for the supposed benifits, the applied physics and mechanics 101, it doesn't seem to matter much out here in the 'real' world. Ya' just don't see many Savages w/barrel nuts show up at the LR shoots, in this 'neck of the woods', anyway.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2011
  10. geargrinder

    geargrinder Well-Known Member

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    It's a Stockade Pdog. I did the finish.
     
  11. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    I would have to agree with Shortgrass on this one, in fact I have never seen a bench rest
    rifle with a barrel nut or a long range target/match rifle ether.

    The barrel nut is there to allow an operator to assemble and head space the rifle without
    the necessity of a gunsmith NOT TO INHANCE ACCURACY. I have worked on lots of Savages
    and they all have these short cuts to improve the ease of assembly by a non skilled worker.
    The fact that they will shoot as well as they do is a tribute to there barrel quality.

    It is a great rifle for the price and in most cases they shoot well, and I'm all about getting
    a hunter/shooter into as good a rifle as they can afford.

    I hope I haven't offended any of the savage guys because It is just my opinion and we are all
    entitled to our opinions. That's what makes this a great site, you can read many different
    opinions and decide for your self.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  12. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    Not trying to offend or "ruffle any feathers" with my earlier post, just an observation.
     
  13. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    reason why is simple. Gunsmiths loose money by going with a nut. But if you check the factory benchrest shoots you will see the vast majority of rifles using barrel nuts. And if you go to an F Class shoot you will see lots of barrel nuts. If you got deep pockets and think your gunsmith can walk on water; then so be it.

    Lastly the weak point in the barrel line is the root diameter of the barrel thread. It is not capable of securing a barrel in a shoulder lockup without flex. The weak point with a barrel nutted barrel is still the root diameter of the thread. But with the thread in tension it becomes part of the female (allbeit not 100%). That 1 1/4" diameter means little when the root diameter is flexing. Lastly if you think the shoulder seated barrel stays seated when you fire that .300 mag I have a bridge for sale.
    gary
     
  14. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    I like it
    gary