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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
Run-out help needed
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<blockquote data-quote="MontanaRifleman" data-source="post: 744482" data-attributes="member: 11717"><p>This whole run-out/concentricty thing is an interesting topic and I wonder how much it affects LR precision and accuracy?</p><p></p><p>A few years ago I bought a used Rem Sendero 25-06. It had a Tasco scope on it and came with some Rem factory ammo. Without cleaning it, I took it out and shot a few of the factory rounds from it @ about 110 yds. I shot a sighter then adjust the scope, then shot 3 more rounds. They measured .244" c-c. I took it home and proceeded to clean it and it took a bout week with Wipeout soakings to get it clean. I decided to take it to a local smith to bore sight it, and he said it was one of the worst firecracker barrels he had ever seen, and was greatly surprised at the group I had shot. Well I bought some Nosler BST's and worked up loads in 3 powders for it and RL17 was the fastest. So I loaded up a few for accuracy testing and it was consistently sub .5 MOA @ 212 and a good .5 MOA to 427 yds. Did not yet own a concentricity gauge. When I did get one, I found that my bullet run-out was in the .006-.010 range for the most part. The Rem factory ammo was the same. Sooo... we have a badly fire cracked barrel shooting factory ammo and handload ammo with some run-out, to . 5 MOA accuracy to 427 yds. It seems to defy logic.</p><p></p><p>Another interesting experience.... I had a lot of 150 gr Nosler BT's loaded for my M77 7 RM, which finally died on me. These were loaded with a good ole set of RCBS FL and stnd Seating dies. I decided to run them through my S&W 1500 7 RM for kicks. I tried chambering a round for fit and they were about .050 too tight. So I decided to run them through the seater again to shorten the COAL. As i was doing this, I noticed a very slight cam-over at the end of the stroke and didn't think much of it. BTW, these cartridges had been loaded about 12 years prior. Got to the range and chambered one and it was a little difficult closing the bolt. I fired and chambered anothe with yet again some difficulty in closing the bolt and fired again. I was seeing no signs of excessive pressure. The 2nd shot was touching the 1st. I chambered a 3rd with same difficulty and fired again. The 3rd shot was touching the second forming a .4 crescent shaped group. I was quite pleased at this point and tried to chamber a 4th, but this one was more difficult then the others so I decided to make an inspection. I found that all the case had wrinkles in the shoulder and some also had wrinkled necks. Apparently over 12 years the bullets had fused to the necks and when I re-sized them, it wrinkled the brass. 12 year old ammo produced with average dies and wrinkled brass shot out of a factory rifle in an unbedded wood stock shot a .4 MOA group. And, these bullets have roughly the same .005-.010 run-out as others I have loaded. Interesting to say the least.</p><p></p><p>I'm not really sure what the moral of the story is? I won't argue that less run-out is a good thing, but I wonder how much effect it has in the big picture?</p><p></p><p>I think when I get my next custom barrel project done, I'll separate some cartridges by bullet run-out and give it a look.</p><p></p><p>To the OP.... I highly recommend Redding Imperial Sizing Die Wax. A little on the outside, i apply with fingers and basically rub it on, not too much. I also stick the case neck into the wax about half way to get a little there and it makes a BIG difference. I stroke my sizing and seating Sloooowley. This seems to help and has reduced my run-out a good bit.</p><p></p><p>Mark</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MontanaRifleman, post: 744482, member: 11717"] This whole run-out/concentricty thing is an interesting topic and I wonder how much it affects LR precision and accuracy? A few years ago I bought a used Rem Sendero 25-06. It had a Tasco scope on it and came with some Rem factory ammo. Without cleaning it, I took it out and shot a few of the factory rounds from it @ about 110 yds. I shot a sighter then adjust the scope, then shot 3 more rounds. They measured .244" c-c. I took it home and proceeded to clean it and it took a bout week with Wipeout soakings to get it clean. I decided to take it to a local smith to bore sight it, and he said it was one of the worst firecracker barrels he had ever seen, and was greatly surprised at the group I had shot. Well I bought some Nosler BST's and worked up loads in 3 powders for it and RL17 was the fastest. So I loaded up a few for accuracy testing and it was consistently sub .5 MOA @ 212 and a good .5 MOA to 427 yds. Did not yet own a concentricity gauge. When I did get one, I found that my bullet run-out was in the .006-.010 range for the most part. The Rem factory ammo was the same. Sooo... we have a badly fire cracked barrel shooting factory ammo and handload ammo with some run-out, to . 5 MOA accuracy to 427 yds. It seems to defy logic. Another interesting experience.... I had a lot of 150 gr Nosler BT's loaded for my M77 7 RM, which finally died on me. These were loaded with a good ole set of RCBS FL and stnd Seating dies. I decided to run them through my S&W 1500 7 RM for kicks. I tried chambering a round for fit and they were about .050 too tight. So I decided to run them through the seater again to shorten the COAL. As i was doing this, I noticed a very slight cam-over at the end of the stroke and didn't think much of it. BTW, these cartridges had been loaded about 12 years prior. Got to the range and chambered one and it was a little difficult closing the bolt. I fired and chambered anothe with yet again some difficulty in closing the bolt and fired again. I was seeing no signs of excessive pressure. The 2nd shot was touching the 1st. I chambered a 3rd with same difficulty and fired again. The 3rd shot was touching the second forming a .4 crescent shaped group. I was quite pleased at this point and tried to chamber a 4th, but this one was more difficult then the others so I decided to make an inspection. I found that all the case had wrinkles in the shoulder and some also had wrinkled necks. Apparently over 12 years the bullets had fused to the necks and when I re-sized them, it wrinkled the brass. 12 year old ammo produced with average dies and wrinkled brass shot out of a factory rifle in an unbedded wood stock shot a .4 MOA group. And, these bullets have roughly the same .005-.010 run-out as others I have loaded. Interesting to say the least. I'm not really sure what the moral of the story is? I won't argue that less run-out is a good thing, but I wonder how much effect it has in the big picture? I think when I get my next custom barrel project done, I'll separate some cartridges by bullet run-out and give it a look. To the OP.... I highly recommend Redding Imperial Sizing Die Wax. A little on the outside, i apply with fingers and basically rub it on, not too much. I also stick the case neck into the wax about half way to get a little there and it makes a BIG difference. I stroke my sizing and seating Sloooowley. This seems to help and has reduced my run-out a good bit. Mark [/QUOTE]
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