Ruger M77, 7mm Ultra mag vs. Rem. 700, .308 value vs. quality

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by WackJob, Nov 13, 2010.

  1. WackJob

    WackJob Member

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    Newbie here... time & xtra money being in short supply lately, i've decided to sell my new/unfired (door prize raffle) Ruger M77,Mark II in 7mm Rem ultra mag, has a nice deluxe walnut checkered stock,rubber buttpad & new unopened pack of Ruger scope mnts too.
    Basically this caliber is pricey to just target shoot & way overpowered for the upstate NY whitetails i hunt, so it's been sitting in case for 8 months.
    Here's my dilemma... i was asking $695. which i feel is a reasonably fair amount for this longarm, but now a fella offered to trade his new Remington model 700 SPS-DM in .308 cal which is also new/unfired condition. I'm unable to find comparable values for his gun but have read they sell used for $400 - $500 at online auction sites.
    Here's my questions to you proverbial vetrans of the 'long range' -
    1. Would this be a fair trade, value-wise ?
    2. Is .308 cal a bit much for whitetail hunting ?
    3. Am i crazy for considering ????
    Thanks for u'r unadulterated comments....fire away !!

    -Wacked & Jobless in the northernwoods-
    gun)
     
  2. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    The Ruger is a nice rifle but traditional will not shoot with the 700.

    The ultra mag can be loaded down or if you buy factory ammo you can get the different levels
    of power (Level 1,2 and 3 plus managed recoil ammo that will bring it down to 30/06 energy.

    The Ruger is worth more but I would have to try it with some level 1 ammo to see how it
    shoots. If you don't like it then he should still have no problem swapping with you because
    he would still get the best of the trade.

    The 308 is more than enough to hunt white tails but the 7mm is not to much if loaded down.

    The main reason I would lean towards the 7mm Ultra if it will shoot(Some Rugers will and some
    won't) it is an all round rifle that will take anything in north America if loaded with the right
    ammo.

    The fact that you have nothing invested in it makes it simple .

    Just my opinion.

    J E CUSTOM
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2010

  3. WackJob

    WackJob Member

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    J E - thanks for the reload info on 7mm , only problem if i decide to keep & shoot is finding a 'reliable' re-loader person to accomodate my reduced load sizing.
    I stopped hunting with my Remington 30-06 180 gr. due to so much collateral tissue damage inflicted on my prey ... i figured the .308 in standard load would be a better choice. Does my asking price of $695 for the new/unfired M77 sound reasonable ? I know my Ruger 7mm is a much more handsome weapon than the pics i've viewed of the bland looking mod 700.
    Time to make a decision i guess...
    thanks again !
     
  4. ovastafford

    ovastafford Well-Known Member

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    I agree with JE, shoot it with some factory loads and see how you like it. If it doesnt shoot great trade it off for something else. I agree your rifle is worth quite a bit more than the 700 but do whatever you want. Either way you end up with a new rifle for free:D

    Good Luck
     
  5. cedarswamp1

    cedarswamp1 Active Member

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    IMHO that is more a result of bullet choice rather than caliber, I shoot a rather hot 165 gr Accubond from my '06 with completely satisfactory results.
     
  6. WackJob

    WackJob Member

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    OK, on respecting u'r humble opinion but.....do u do u'r own butchering ?
    After 40+yrs of handling our own kills & comparing the meat loss due to 'overkill' from an '06' canon vs. efficiency of my mini-30 in regards to minimal adjacent tissue loss. The evidence is clear, regardless of bullet grain wght, tip configuration,etc. the 30-06 is simply devastating when whitetails are hit in the vital chest area . My 7.62x39 does the job with minimal mess !!
    The proof is in the freezer......
     
  7. the444shooter

    the444shooter Well-Known Member

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    The power level ammo that JE mentioned is actually factory loaded ammunition, so you wouldn't have to find a 'reliable reloader person.' But what surprises me is that you think a 30-06 is overkill. In all my experience of both killing and butchering my own animals (it's not the amount of time you stated you have, but it has been extensive) I have never found the 30-06 to be as devastating as you say it is. If it's truly a problem, then switch to some controlled expansion bullets such as the Nosler Accubond, Hornady Interbond, Barnes Triple Shock, or Hornady GMX. I think you'll get the results you want with the Barnes Triple Shock--very minimal surrounding meat damage in my experiences. I'm also still confused as to how you have a 7mm Ultra Mag in a Ruger rifle...is it a custom barrel on a Ruger action? In all my years of gun browsing, and employment within the industry, I have never seen a Ruger factory rifle chambered in the Ultra Magnum calibers. If you can post pics here or in the Classified section where you have the rifle for sale, it would clear up a lot of confusion. The .308 is so close to 30-06 ballistics that you'll see no difference in performance between the two. I'm assuming that you also have a 30-06 based on your experiences with it? So if you already have the 30-06, the .308 is absolutely unnecessary. Now, if your Ruger rifle is just a 7mm Rem Mag, then $695 is a very high price to be asking. They sell regularly for the same price as the .308 you're looking at. You also state the the Ruger has a free floated barrel, and I've never known a Ruger to have a factory free floated barrel either. You may have a semi-custom gun that is worth more than the .308, but some of the information you have posted so far is contradictory to everything I've ever seen in the world of Ruger factory rifles.
     
  8. cedarswamp1

    cedarswamp1 Active Member

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    That's why we call them opinions, I can only speak to my own experience. The only time I've ruined meat is when I've missed my mark, your mileage may vary.
     
  9. WackJob

    WackJob Member

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    Since it (Ruger 7mm) is brand new from a FFL dealer .... i have assumed it to be a regular caliber & grade of their M77 line-up that's available anywhere...
    It was acquired 2 yrs ago from a local shop here in Adirondack region of N.Y.
    As the barrel is inscribed " 7mm REM SA ULTRA MAG " i'd have to assume that Sturm,Ruger & Co. inc. did infact manufacture it & this style for resale to public.
    I read that it had a free-float barrel but u'r correct, upon doing the 'paper-slide' test, it appears to be bedded on forearm of stock.
    Perhaps it's a freak/one-off production piece thats slipped thru Ruger's upper management hands into the general population....making it worth vastly more than my mere $695 asking price:)
    I won't take the effort to reply about my butchering experiences regarding o6 kills vs smaller 30 cal weaponry, it's a futile discussion.... been-there, done- that !
    I'm going to attempt to post pics of this M77,Mark II when i find the time to locate & operate 'photobucket' site properly.
    Thanks for feedback -
    - Slightly Wacked -
     
  10. cedarswamp1

    cedarswamp1 Active Member

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    SA Ultra Mag is Short Action Ultra Mag, it's a great round. IMHO LOL
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  11. the444shooter

    the444shooter Well-Known Member

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    Ok, now it all makes sense...it's the SHORT ACTION ultra mag--akin to the Winchester Short Magnum line of cartridges. It's a nice little cartridge, with plenty of horsepower. I still think $695 is a little high, since Ruger doesn't command a premium on the marketplace of used guns (even though it's still NIB.) An unfired .308 SPS DM, would go for a little less NIB, so tell the guy to kick in $50-100 extra bucks, and make the swap. Do you still have your 30-06, or did you get rid of it?
     
  12. WackJob

    WackJob Member

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    Now that i've learned i can actually power down with some factory loads for the 7mm i'm considering keeping the ole' gal ! Maybe even start to plan a hunt to the Canadian Rockies with her before i'm travelin' with a walker.
    Appearance-wise i feel the M77 is far superior in fit & finish to the generic looking mod. 700, i like the rich walnut vs. synthetic black, nice blued barrel vs. dull/matte black & overall probably more diversity of bullet combos are available to me with the 7mm than the .308
    Thanks to all u guys for talking me down from the ledge !
    Yes, i still have my dad's 1959 classic Rem. mod.740, 30-06 resting peacefully in the safe as we speak, every so often i take her for a long stroll in the northern woods to reminisce ...
     
  13. the444shooter

    the444shooter Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify, there are no factory reduced loads for the SHORT ACTION ULTRA MAG, which you have. The reduced factory loads that JE and myself mentioned earlier in the thread were for the Long action 7 RUM--you are stuck with full power loads for your SAUM. That being said, however, I believe the recoil won't be significantly higher than your 30-06. Good luck!!!!
     
  14. Buano

    Buano Well-Known Member

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    The short action ultra mag is very close to being a clone of your 30-06 in both power & damage to meat. The SAUM cartridges did not catch on like the WSM cartridges did so this loading reduces the rifle's value (in my opinion). .308 ammunition is available worldwide, so that advantage goes to the Remington.

    That said, I like my Ruger, and it's the rifle I reach for most often to hunt. The triggers are not very good so I replaced mine with a Timney. The Remington trigger is worse & should be replaced for safety & to improve accuracy. The Ruger has a nicer 3-position safety.

    As someone who has continually gone smaller on my deer rifles over the years in order to minimize meat damage, I understand your thoughts on going smaller. I went from a 7MM Rem mag to a .25-06 for exactly that reason. I've now gone down to a .243 for most deer hunting so there is even less damage. If you are shooting deer at relatively close range, "magnum" bullets can do lots of damage. Hunting NY state, many shots will be at relatively close range.

    If I were you I would figure out what you want & get that. You can always sell your rifle outright, either on this site or one of the others. Use that money to get what you want.

    Might I suggest you look closely at the following calibers: .243 Win, .260 Rem, 7mm-08 and .25-06. of these, only the .243 is limited for deer hunting, most limit it to under 300 yards. The .260 Rem may be the perfect cartridge for where you hunt but there are few rifles chambered for it. Each of these rounds could do double-duty as a coyote rifle.

    As you hunt upstate NY you will be hunting in the slop so I recommend a stainless or rust-resistant gun with a composite stock.