rocks at 2200 yards with 338 lapua

[steeltraps]

Just got back with friends from shooting rocks from 1600 to 2271 yards. Here is the story. Started ouy at 1600 yards. The load is 300 gr sierras,94 gr of h-1000, 215 gm primers es of 20 fps 10 shots, 2820 average speed. The conditions 45/ 80/ 29.30. Rolled in at 1600 yards no wind in hayfield, up 56.25 moa 4 moa left. went left because the wind at target was from west and we shoot north to south. 1 st shoot was 1 moa high but almost perfrect wind call. next 4 fell into about a 12 in group so about 3/4 moa i happy , friends blow up the rocks at 1600 with 260s ,6.5x284 , 7mm saum,and 300 wsms. Next i go to 2000 yards. Dial up to 87.50 moa, wind a little stronger so i go 9 moa. First 2 hits with my NEW spotter cant be seen. We are shooting at a crack that is 20 inchs in width and runs down the rock facing. Next round goes in the crack, and so does the 4 th, dont know what happened to the 5th round it was about 5 moa to the left, wind fell off i guess. Let gun cool shot 5 more shoots into about 20 inch group id say , barely under moa but for factory gun im happy. Next move to 2200 yards same rock facing gun has cooled 40 mins. 5x22x56 nightforce with 40 moa nightforce base has 94 moa up i need 107 moa so i am holding over. The 300 gr SIERRA load go to CRAP. I know that the bullets are going way subsonic but man the group is ugly, i mean their going every where!! 5 shots in maybe 2 moa or may be almost 3 moa!!! how could 200 more yards make a load i thought was so go,go so bad. But the high point of my day was latter. Before i started to leave i picked out a spot 2271 yard, a really white rock> took 4 shoots be i luck up and hit this wheel barrow size rock arfter the gun had cooled for 30 mins. Never have shot past 2000 yards till 2 day. I am hooked for life. Can wait to rebarrel to 338 lapua in febuary, then come spring its build a 375 cheytec. If anyone has a sugguestin on what type of camera i should buy please let me know. I would love to start making ELR rock shooting videos. Thanks for the advice on the spotting scopes guys. Hope to get into videoing this ELR ROCK SHOOTING soon.> chris gun)

 

[Broken arrow]

What rifle??

 

[steeltraps]

rem 700 xcr 338 lapua, has jewell trigger and was devcon bedded. ALL my loads are chronographed with pvm-21 and magneto speed v2 . Also has custom break built by friend of mine. Looks kind of like a fat bastard but with 4 hole out the top of break. Keeps barrel down on this lite rifle. My es with this load is NEVER above 20 fps for 10 shoots. I own lots of custom rifles but i really like this 1. Im going to rebarrel to 338 imp when feb 1 gets here.

 

[BrentM]

I have a canon that works well but you will probably need to find a camera that you can put a doubler on or use a ipod type device with a spotting scope. I am thinking about switching up a little to the ipod from my camera. There is a lot of mirage that can occur at extended distances. Regardless, the camera is your best friend for going back and reviewing shots that are lost to the spotter. I use it as a tool tp mainly see shots I couldn't spot and determine actual group size vs what my ego wants to believe. I post a few occasionally too.

Get the most camera you can for the money. I like my little unit with 37 or 40x optical zoom. Be mindful or zoom that is digital. It is hard to get really good vid with digital zoom that is clear and bright.

 

[steeltraps]

What kind of camera can i get in the 3000 to 4000 dollar range? Mirage isnt a big concern for us, we shoot from mt top to mt top. The main rock we shoot at is very large and is brown sand stone. With to 300 brain bullets you can turn scopes up and sometimes see the actual bullet chunks nocked out by the bullets. If you shoot the rock in the right place and its dry it really puts off a good dust signnature. What type of camera can i get for 3 to 4k? I dont own an ipod phone should i get 1? Why is my load going to crap at 2200 yards and not at 2000? IM sorry for all the guesstions guy, just new to shooting past 1 mile. I got the 338 lapua for shooting past 1 mile because 284 shehane was cutting it past 1 mile. I going to order some otm 300 gr bergers tomorrow. Will 300 gr otm bergers out preform 300 seirras? Is 2200 yards to far for 300 seirras?

 

[BrentM]

Well with that large of a budget you can have a hell of a camera. You will need to look at the pro grade cameras. Way out of my league.

300 gr sierras,94 gr of h-1000, 215 gm primers es of 20 fps 10 shots, 2820 average speed. The conditions 45/ 80/ 29.30.

This info tells me your bullet is is 954 fps vs 1000 fps. 2200 vs 2000. At some point the bullets have just pieces of metal falling out of the sky and tumbling around. At 1750 this bullet is in the read. The only real good one to see this affect is to shoot a piece of cardboard and look for the bullet strike. My guess is that at 2000 the bullet is still sort of spinning like and hitting the target point on. At 2200 it is wobbling and tumbling and hitting the target on its side etc.

The 300 OTM with the same info gets you to 1950 before it goes into the red and has the same velocity at 2200 as the Sierra at 2000. In my opinion for shooting rocks/targets there is no comparison between the two. The BC difference is quite high. I would look at the 300 VLD as well. Gives you another 50 FPS at 2200 then the OTM, 1067 fps vs the sierra at 954.

ELR is where is high G7 BC is going to be your friend. Not only is HIGH BC the number you need to look at but also velocity, IMHO. A 250 pill might be just as good if not better if the speed is high enough. You think about spending some time with a ballistics computer and do some comps. I like doing that stuff to see what computer modeling results are then field testing.

 

[steeltraps]

I think you are correct on the bullet going crazy an wobbling at 2200 yards. I use Xbal, nightforce program. Should i be using a g7 type program? If so which 1 should i buy? Exbal says at 45/80/29.30 with bryan litz .745 bc from the book , at 2820 fps average that my fps at 2000 yards is 1045 fps. Same bullet at 2200 is 990 fps. I am guessing 2000 yards is my limit with this load. The programs says 300 otm berger at same temp and speed is 1118 fps at 2000 yards. I order 250 otm 300gr bergers online just a few minutes ago. I looked at iphone adpter for spotting scopes. Whould a iphone and a good spotting scope be better that the pro type camera you suggested or not as good? This is all very new to me , but i would REALLY like to start making videos of ELR ROCK SHOOTING!! Thanks for your response. I will start building a 300 otm load as soon as i get the bullets! Can wait to try 300 otms at same distance to see what happens! gun)>chris

 

[BrentM]

-The reason I mentioned the iPod is because I use an iPod with Shooter installed. All my ballistics come from that unit while in the field. I choose this method as I can use the iPod to take pictures and vid and record my DOPE. All of my info is that unit. Anyway... Is it better than a camera? For your price point, I would say no way. It is better than many cameras in the $300 range , with a good scope. I assume you have a high end spotter like a Leica or Swarovski for spotting shots, if so, see if you can use your iphone or borrow an iPod to see if you like it with the scope. You will know right away. Again, my guess is the camera will be better with a good zoom doubler etc.

-Your progams are fine, no need to change.

- G7 is the BC measurement I was refering to, not G7 from Gunwerks. G7 BC is what many LR shooters use in place of G1 as it tends to be more accurate. I would spend some time playing with the G7 BC of the upper end LR bullets, even custom brands. The 300 VLD is another 50 points better than the OTM I think.

As far as the numbers you are giving I didn't ask other questions to clarify if the Barometeric pressure was corrected or Absolute. If corrected I would have to have the altitude too. I just ran the numbers as corrected BP and left all the numbers the same with variation being the Bullet design and BC.

Perhaps some of the highly skilled and experienced crew will be chiming in as well.

 

[steeltraps]

The pressure i run is absolute, the corrected was NEVER right on my weather ap as opposed to KESTEL 4500nv. I was always off with corrected but when using the kestel i was within 1/2 moa at ELR. The spotting scope i have is 15x45x60 mildot bushnell. The range finder we used today is 20x60x80 leupold mark 4. I really liked it. So i quess i want to spend 2k on a good KOWA, SWARO,LEICA,or LEUPOLD. Then i would like to spend 3k on a camera if thats what i need to make videos. So does anyone have any suggestion for a 3k camera capable of making videos to putt on here? it must be good for 2000 yard ELR rock shooting. Thanks for the help, headed out to the hunting club to try to get the daughter a deer this year with her 260.>chris

 

[BrentM]

On the camera. It seems most high end cams do not have a lot of zoom. In order to get the zoom you can run a doubler or 2x lense on the camera. This is where the camera begins to really shine over models like mine. Mine has a lot of zoom but lacks the quality of the untis in this link. All my stuff is light weight and I pack it with me on the mountain. Being in Idaho, when I say mountain, I am refering to nose bleed and devils steep. I have packed pro cams to shoot video for client based hunts but I won't pack one when I am hunting.


All High-Definition Camcorders : $2500 - $2999.99 | $3000 and Up $3000 and Up - Best Buy

Couple of my vids. Not horrible but not great either. It does a fine job for the closer ranges and if mirage is low. Light has a lot to do with it too. The better the camera the better it can handle the light variations. Mine needs good light if it is going to be a long way and high zoom. I have picked out impacts in the shade, in the dirt, no plash at 1660. It takes a bit of time to find them though. ha ha

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTfHp5fFNtk]Shooting 960 yards 6.5-284 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFsyKAUVIxo]Shooting 1310 yards with 6.5-284 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[steeltraps]

BrentM, whatever brand of camera and double you are using looks GOOD to me!! 1310 yards with 6.5x284, the rocks we are shooting make a little bigger puff of smoke than that even at 2000 yards with 338 lapua. Maybe because their flat? The link from best buy 1 like the sony for 2699. Could i get and and a doubler for under 3k? When i get home from hunting club next wednesday i may go to best buy and get 1. We have a best buy about 40 miles from us. Thanks for the info.> chris

 

[canderson]

Congrats for you. Bad news for the rocks. Sounds like a good time. The bergers are definetly higher bc than sierras. Shawn Carlock tell me the Berger does well in transonic range and, they have few problems getting them to group at subsonic ranges. I personally think the denser air in the south-southeast exaggerate the "flaws" of bullets more than the bullets in thin air. I have shot a few 300 Bergers out of my edge to 1760. Some of the bullets hit sideways. I plan on retesting the mile shot very soon. Good luck and keep us posted of any results at 2000+ with the bergers. Thanks

 

[steeltraps]

Thanks just got back from hunting club, rained out. The 180 hybrid 7mm also does vert well arfter it drops to below subsonic. I have been reading on my laptop while sitting in the blind last few days about the 300 gr berger otm. I have some coming after the first of the year i will try to get some loaded up and tomorrow im going to BEST BUY to look at cameras. Thanks for all the replies guys! May be mid - january i can load up some videos of 2000 yard plus ELR rock busting<chrisgun)

 

[Shumba]

I would give some 300g Berger OTMs a try. I shoot a 338 Edge at the same velocity as your load and 2200 yards only requires 94 MOA correction. The Bergers seem to survive transonic change much better than SMKs. Good shooting though, fun stuff isn't it!