RL-17 & WSM: Too good to be True?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Outlaw6.0, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    Morning Fellas, here is the conundrum; I, just like the countless numbers of you out there, suffer from the shooters dreaded affliction named "tinkeritis". Here is some background for your pondering:

    7.82 Lazzeroni Patriot
    Rem 700 SA- LH of course:D
    Factory Sendero contour BBL (rechambered w/brake)
    Reworked Rem trigger (old style)
    LongRifles Inc fire control (Pin, spring & cocking assy)
    MK4 pic rail... yada yada

    Now, my go to load for the last several years was a 150 TSX & 71.5 grns of RL-19 w/ FED 215M for a very nominal velocity of ~3200 which is very slow I know, however ES & SD are both single digits & this combo is quite capable of putting 5 rounds in a ragged hole the size of your thumb nail...

    So, now we've decided we need MORE SPEED!! I decide to lose the very effective yet ballistically challenged 150 TSX in exchange for the more versatile 168 TTSX and ditch the old stanby RL-19 (Lazzeroni loves this stuff) in favor of the newer and shinier "Specifically for the Short Magnum.." RL-17. I of course cannot find any kind of data for a Lazzeroni & RL-17, so I pull data for a 300WSM as the WSM is longer & the Lazz' is fatter, I guesstimate that capacity is very similar (correct me if I am wrong).

    So here is a short preface as I worked my way north:

    Lazzeroni Brass (I don't know who actually makes it)
    FED 215M
    RL-17
    Barnes 168 TTSX
    ~.050 jump (IIRC)

    90deg 4500' ele. 100yds
    3 shot groups for pressure checks & accy potential

    66.0- Poor accuracy no pressure
    66.5- Accuracy improved no pressure
    67.0- Well under MOA little sticky, no ejector mark or flat primer
    67.5- Good accy, bolt sticky, no ejector mark or flat primer *Maximum* for me

    Load 4 more & Check accy @ 67.0:
    Good accy, 1 flyer?? (difference discovered in brass like new manufacturer or something??)

    Clean & Load 10 for 5 shot groups @ 67.0:
    Good accy & repeatable

    Load 5 more for accy & pressure checks w/ Chrono:

    THIS is the whole point behind my post, I am absolutely baffled. Chrono shows a 5 shot avg velocity of 3441fps with a 168grn bullet!? Holy crap! I know pressure is getting close to max, but worked up at 90degrees everything is hotter than the blazes...:D

    So for those of you who use RL-17: Is this normal? I'm WELL aware of the old addage, "if something seems too good to be true.." but I've tried to prove myself wrong... 20-30 rounds of proofing on the same brass to again, detect pressure problems before ruining brass that is over $2.00ea.

    So what are your thoughts? I cannot find anything wrong with my findings, I will be reloading the last 5 cases again (4th or 5th loading) to verify velocity again this week (I hope).

    Thanks guys,
     
  2. Camshaft

    Camshaft Well-Known Member

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    I recently started using Superformance powder in my 300wsm and was getting well over 3300fps with the 165gr Hornady Gmx. But I discovered that like some other powders I have used, it likes to spike sometimes at max pressure. So I ended up retesting and setteling on 68.5gr at 3220fps rather than 70. Just remember there is no free lunch and velocity seldom lies in terms of pressure. Plus in my book even a semi sticky bolt lift is unacceptable.
     

  3. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    I am in complete agreement with you, no free lunch... I should maybe edit my post to add clarity, when I wrote somewhat sticky or little stick I might have made that somewhat misleading, this particular rifle (me thinks from the rechamber job) has always had a "somewhat" sticky lift, even with the RL-19 load outlined in the first paragraph, very low pressure, kinda sticky, nature of MY beast. Always has been...

    As there is NO data for the Lazz' I am trying to break a little ground :D I realize it's faster than I would have bet money on... sure hope it doesn't turn into another 6.5 voodoo post...

    I am really interested in what others w/ similar chamberings are getting w/similar powder/bullet combos..
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2011
  4. Camshaft

    Camshaft Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt worry about the persecution to much. Im sure the big dogs will chime in soon. But if your are getting good case life and decent extraction then go for it. My test I use is to leave a loaded round in the sun for a few minutes and then in the chamber for 30seconds or so. Then fire and check for pressure. This test usualy tells the whole story. But it sounds like you have been plenty thorough. Is your barrel 26"?
     
  5. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    The chamber test is intriguing, actually the last 5 I shot were as quickly put them in the chamber & make an accurate shot.... PLENTY hot after about 3... basically trying to make it tip it's hand....

    Yep, bbl is 26" 28-ish w/brake, I'm trying to be a thurough as I can with my test, hopin I can get another type of test or god knows what to make sure I haven't done something foolish.

    Exctraction is flawless even @ 90degrees, some cases are at 4 or 5 loadings as I test (part of my general procedure). What could I be missing?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2011
  6. TikkaShooters

    TikkaShooters Official LRH Sponsor

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    I have been using rl17 since it came out with fantastic results.

    Originally I thought it was too good to be true, but three years later I'm still loving it! Very consistent from lot to lot and low es and sd numbers on virtually all my accuracy loads. Here in MT I shoot in temperatures ranging from -30 to 100 f. So far it has been consistent through all temps.
     
  7. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info, my ES & SD were a little higher than I was hoping for, however I think they will be just fine. I may be able to work them a little lower yet. I COMPLETELY understand the temp swing (i'm only ~60 miles from MT:D)

    Thanks again,
     
  8. TikkaShooters

    TikkaShooters Official LRH Sponsor

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    Fwiw I was able to get my es and sd numbers down by seating the bullet 20 thousandths off the lands. Both accuracy and consistency improved.

    I'm going to experiment with H1000 next weekend to see if I can push my 165s in my 270 wsm a little faster with lower pressure.
     
  9. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    What bullet are you speaking of? Out of curiousity....
     
  10. TikkaShooters

    TikkaShooters Official LRH Sponsor

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    The 165 is a Matrix .277. I'm still trying to find the sweet spot for these...

    Normally I shoot 140 and 150 Bergers. Prior to that, I shot the 130 TSX with excellent results as well.
     
  11. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^^^^ Whoops! Maybe next time I should re-read the previous post! sorry for the redundancy.
     
  12. TikkaShooters

    TikkaShooters Official LRH Sponsor

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    No worries. Rl17 really sends light bullets flying too. 90 grainers almost 4k out of that same gun!

    I don't shoot those much for fear of killing my throat
     
  13. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    RL-17 IS different. I have used it achieving higher velocities than expected with a few mid sized cases.

    6mm rem and 100 gr nos pt, 3300 fps 24" barrel.

    284 win 160 nos accubonds 3070 fps 23" barrel,

    More recently with two very different 338 RCMs.

    First 338 RCM (standard throating) 225 accubonds 2750 fps 22" barrel.

    Long throated 338 RCM 300 gr Berger hybrids 2575 29" barrel. ES for two different powder charges was ZERO.

    ---------
    It isn't just a few of us noticing this with our personal observations, it has been proven with a strain gauge by German Salazar and Bob Jensen:

    Alliant Reloder 17
     
  14. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting that article, great read, I appreciate the response!