RL-17 vs H4350 and temperature variance

[kaseyfied]

No need to get madd ive shot alot of rounds.. and never seen 100 fps with the powders i use.. was just my 2 cents lol cry somewhere else

 

[Bullet bumper]

I've seen 100 fps change with THE SAME BOX of 25 WSSM'S loaded with H4895;
YOU do not know what you are talking about. I shoot over an Oehler 35p chrono.

Can you prove that the whole 100 fps change was due to powder temp alone ? I think not.
Just because you experienced that kind of wide variation doe not mean H4895 is more temp sensitive than some other powder. Powder performance can vary due to burning rates and grain size and shape and the cartridge they are used in even if they are made with the same basic formula . Varget may well be a bit better than H4895 but I doubt it as they are very close in burning rate and aplication .
What I said is correct wether you like it or not .

 

[4xforfun]

I've seen 100 fps change with THE SAME BOX of 25 WSSM'S loaded with H4895;
YOU do not know what you are talking about. I shoot over an Oehler 35p chrono.

My question is this. With your above statement about the 100 fps swing.....are we talking about a 100 FPS ES on the same day, or are we talking about a 100 FPS AV difference when shooting on two different days when the temps were way different?

Two TOTALY different things.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

My question is this. With your above statement about the 100 fps swing.....are we talking about a 100 FPS ES on the same day, or are we talking about a 100 FPS AV difference when shooting on two different days when the temps were way different?

Two TOTALY different things.

Abuot three months apart. I about crapped myself when the oehler said 3150 fps avg. instead of the 3050 I was expecting. I never drank the Hodgdon kool-aid, but I did expect them to be better than that.
The load is 38.0 H 4985, win 25 wssm brass trimmed .010" under, fed 210, sierra 100 grain pro-hunter.
I usually shoot rl but was limited on their data at the time, so I started playing with H 4895 with 100's and h 4350 with 120's. I have really limited data on how the 4350 has done with the 120 speer and a 215 in that rifle, but I'd put $50 on it being under 30 fps between 20 and 80 degrees. I think H is still getting temp. swings with certain powders and you really have to try them out and not just believe.

 

[4xforfun]

Abuot three months apart. I about crapped myself when the oehler said 3150 fps avg. instead of the 3050 I was expecting. I never drank the Hodgdon kool-aid, but I did expect them to be better than that.
The load is 38.0 H 4985, win 25 wssm brass trimmed .010" under, fed 210, sierra 100 grain pro-hunter.
I usually shoot rl but was limited on their data at the time, so I started playing with H 4895 with 100's and h 4350 with 120's. I have really limited data on how the 4350 has done with the 120 speer and a 215 in that rifle, but I'd put $50 on it being under 30 fps between 20 and 80 degrees. I think H is still getting temp. swings with certain powders and you really have to try them out and not just believe.

I am not a 4895 shooter. Is the 4895 listed as an "extream" powder? I know that Varget, Retumbo, and one or two others are listed as such, but I don't know about 4895.

I also read somewhere that RL17 is a different powder than RL15 and 19. I am not sure if it is a triple/double/single based thing or something else.

 

[jayran]

RL-17 is very temp sensitive in my 284 win 100fps 30deg-90deg, RL25 is ok in my 257 weatherby see only 40fps difference in temp swings. I have personally seen less variance in the H extreme powders. Try the cooler method and let everyone know what you find out!

 

[kaseyfied]

I did the cooler method with h1000 this last summer.. put a temp gun on outside rounds and cooler rounds. Outside round were 94 degrees 5 shot string es of 7 average velocity 2790.. cooler rounds were 26 degrees es of 5 average was 2786.. 338 lapua mag

 

[7stw]

Not wanting to hi- jack the thread about RL 17' and H 4350, but was wondering where the 8208 falls into. I mean, it is produced by IMR, which is owned by Hodgdon, but it has that " greenish" tint, and have wondered if it is " treated" like the other Extreme powders. I have used it in my 308, and 22-250, in hot and cold weather, with not apparent POI change.
Furthermore, I am using RL17 in my 25-06, and so far so good. I did not know that the burn rate between the two were so close.
Interesting thread so far!

 

[Edd]

On the Hodgdon Burn rate chart IMR-8208 is #85. H4350 is #114 and Reloader 17 is #115.

The bigger the number the slower the burn rate.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Can you prove that the whole 100 fps change was due to powder temp alone ? I think not.
Just because you experienced that kind of wide variation doe not mean H4895 is more temp sensitive than some other powder. Powder performance can vary due to burning rates and grain size and shape and the cartridge they are used in even if they are made with the same basic formula . Varget may well be a bit better than H4895 but I doubt it as they are very close in burning rate and aplication .
What I said is correct wether you like it or not .

Same box of ammo in the 25wssm my friend-- didn't even load any more-- of course it was a hundred rounder to start with-- weighed charges too.

Most of the powder on the market is pretty dang good; I have only one or two I won't burn because they have ignition issues with certain primers I use, but that's another thread.
As to the Varget statement, I've used it, and it works. Never had a hunting rifle burning it, so I've never cared about temp. issues though.
Powder performance sure can vary and I'd bet H4895 may do better in an '06 or similar where it is closer to filling the case. I won't burn H 4350 in some rounds because it is slower vel. wise than other powders in its class, but in other applications it is very good.
I've only burned rl17 in the 270, so my experience with it is a bit more limited than some of the other RL powders, but is Swiss and NOT Swedish, so it is one of their newer chemistries. I CAN say with rl17's sister powder rl50, it doesn't vary much at all. I worked up some loads for 225 hornady 30 cal's in my 300 rum with it, and the initial run up was done in 30 degree weather. 98 grains produced 2870 fps. At 80 degrees a couple of months later the same rounds were still under 2900 fps by a few fps. The jury is out on rl33 also, but I've got some loaded and I just need to get out and shoot. I'll know within a couple of months on that one.

 

[7stw]

On the Hodgdon Burn rate chart IMR-8208 is #85. H4350 is #114 and Reloader 17 is #115.

The bigger the number the slower the burn rate.

Yeah, I knew that the burn rate was faster, but I ws wondering if the 8208 is a " extreme" powder.
The close burn rate I was referring to was the 17' and h4350.

 

[lloydsmale]

ive been loading with re22 or mrp (same powder) for over 30 years. Ive also used a whole lot of re19 and 25. Ive shot them in 100 degree weather and up here in the north shot them in 0 degree weather and have never seen a swing over 75fps with any of them. Ill also add that ANY powder is somewhat temp sensitive. NONE will give you the exact same velocitys in 0 weather as they will in 100 degree weather. Even with powders like h4350 you will see sometimes 50 fps differnce. Alot like lefty7stw said is due to the fact that cold makes things shrink. Put a nice warm shell out of your pocket in a barrel thats been sitting out in below zero temps all day and ill guarantee you that no matter what powder is used the velocity will be a bit differnt then if the barrel was warm. Personaly i think most of this adveritising the powder manufactures do telling you there powders are less sensitive to temps is just about the same as them telling you there new super duper bullet is what you have to pay 3 times more for because last years new super duper bullet will now bounce off of deer. Or you need a 2 buck a piece bullet to shoot small groups when sierras have been wining long range and bench competitions for decades.

 

[jreagle]

this may be of interest to some although a little off track from the op's question. i have not had a chance to work up the swiss Rl powders yet and have been working with the swedish RL powders 22 and 25. im not all that sure there is one load with the same drop chart for temps above 80 and below 40 degrees F with any powder.

between this weekend and last weekend we had temps of 50 and 15 at the range..... usable for a temp test. i live in CT. lately i am working up loads for 300 wby 200 berger hybrid with rl25 fed 215gm wby brass, all cases are neck sized. the more i shoot this caliber, the more i like it.

i saw ~15fps slower velocity on the colder day with the same lot of RL25 and load recepie on the initial development. my initial impression is positive with this powder and i wonder if this is repeatable.

case volume is a contributer to velocity, the neck sized case holds ~ 1gr of water more than a fl sized case in my rifle. the cases in the 2 weekend session have been neck sized, fired 5 and 6x. also found with the factory barrel in this rifle that after 9 shots and more the es spreads out and the groups spread out. clean out the carbon and es and group size is back down again.

it is important to me that the whole shooting system is the same temp when testing for temp related velocity differences, reflecting real field conditions. it takes about 1/2 hour to an hour or so for the temps to stabilize after leaving the car and getting all of the toys and tools out and setup in the ambient air on a cold day; less if its warmer outside.
the swedish rl powders are showing me single digit es so far.
it is still early, need more shooting to feel comfortable.

John R

 

[Edd]

but I ws wondering if the 8208 is a " extreme" powder.

From the Hodgdon website...........

shooters will find IMR 8208 XBR totally insensitive to changes in temperature,