rifle/caliber help. 7mm,30,338??

[Broz]

I just skimmed back throug this thread. I have owned two Mark V ULW's, both were 26" barrels and both shot a whopping 1 1/2 to 2 moa for a 3 shot groups. They went down the road. IMO they are in no way a 1000 yard rifle. My guess that magnaport job is hurting you. So I say keep that rifle and use it for a 300 yard rifle where you need something light in steep terrain. Then buy an Accumark or Sendero in either 300 win or 300 wby or 30-378 and shoot 210, 215 0r 230's. Or if you really want to plant elk at 1000 yard or beyond go with a 338 LM or a 338 Edge with 300 Bergers.

By the way, I like H-1000 in all of them.

But the best advice I can give you now is not to get to carried away with the light bullet / program comparisons. Go tip an elk over past 1000 first with a large bullet. Then see what you think. Especially with some wind

Jeff

 

[setandglass]

I just skimmed back throug this thread. I have owned two Mark V ULW's, both were 26" barrels and both shot a whopping 1 1/2 to 2 moa for a 3 shot groups. They went down the road. IMO they are in no way a 1000 yard rifle. My guess that magnaport job is hurting you. So I say keep that rifle and use it for a 300 yard rifle where you need something light in steep terrain. Then buy an Accumark or Sendero in either 300 win or 300 wby or 30-378 and shoot 210, 215 0r 230's. Or if you really want to plant elk at 1000 yard or beyond go with a 338 LM or a 338 Edge with 300 Bergers.

By the way, I like H-1000 in all of them.

But the best advice I can give you now is not to get to carried away with the light bullet / program comparisons. Go tip an elk over past 1000 first with a large bullet. Then see what you think. Especially with some wind

Jeff

I dont have the magnaport no more. I had it cut off and a muzzle break put on thats why my barrel is like 25 inches. I shot retumbo powder today and 210 berger's 83,84 and 85 grains. Was shooting at 2500 elevation 32 deg. best average speed came from the 83. shot 4 shoots at 200 yards 3 of them would of been 1 Inch but i threw the fourth. Speeds stayed real close to 2814.(stayed within 8 fps of each other) Then went back reloaded same load 8 all together and shoot again. temp increased to 41. Well speed dropped to 2788 ish and speeds changed as much as 100fps with in these 8. Group size 6 inches. I have my bullets loaded long 3.685 could it be I'm out to far? I can't figure why the same load changes so much and gets inconsistent when it's only 10 deg warmer? its not the chrony because it does real good with the other gun. Speed can't be human. So whats the deal?

 

[Pistol packer]

setand glass,
i get 2950 out of my mod 70 300 WM with a 220 SMK and 4350IMR. i have loaded commercially for over 20 years and privately for 30 years. i have found that a lot of manuals are wrong and that most people in the last 20 years are loading with too slow a powder. i was very disappointed with all the slower powders except in the very overbore class (e.g. RUM STW, etc.). watch the shadowaffect on your screens.
i would just shoot the 7mm that you want to get. it is more than enough for any elk in any situation except maybe a quartering shot away, but with the right bullet it would be fine. i know several game guides in alaska and F&G personnel who carry nothing but a 7 mm RM and feel that it is overpowered for most of the game and situations in alaska, even for moose (of course charging bear and close game situations are in a class to themselves). the books and the stats on the bullet at 1000 are very misleading as P.O. Ackley and many other authorities will tell you. he shot wild jackasses of 500 + pounds with a 220 swift and they dropped like they were beheaded at 500 yards, with standard SP bullets. i have killed caribou over 1000 yards with the above mebntioned load except with a 200 gr Sierra SP and one died with a front quarter nearly blown off, another with a hind quarter almost detached and a third nearly cut into. mr. ackley postulated that he thought this had to do with the rotation energy of the bullet, as the velocity and terminal energy at those distances are puny. initial speed and barrel twist determine this factor and IS NOT affected appreciably by distance. getting hit by any projectile going at any speed in the 200.000 RPM range is devastating. anyone with a 7 mm RM, 7 STW, 7 RUM can tell you that they kill with so much more authority than what is on paper, at any range.
i would go the cheaper route and just shoot the gun you have your sights on.
this being said, i am a proponent of bigger is better that is why i own 300's, 338's 45's and 50 BMG. i wouldnt hesitate at all on the 7 mm tho.

 

[Pistol packer]

oh, yeah
sorry aabout the long post. the guy who taught me to elk hunt was raised in montana and shot his grandfathers pre 64 mod 70 in '06 for some 30 years. he refused any other caliber or gun and shot over 35 elk in that time never missing a year that he didnt get at least one. after he saw what my 300 WM could do, he decided to give a savage 7mm RM a try. i developed a 175 gr load at 2900 FPS for him and he shot a 250 pound mulie at 750 yards on the first outing with the rifle. the hole in the buck was big enough to put a dinner plate thru on the far side. he cursed me for hours as he had to go thru one deep gorge onto a slope on the next mountain then drag it back for 8 hours. he has shot the 7 RM for 15 years since and wont shoot anything else.

 

[setandglass]

Thanks for the info pistol. I'm just tryin to figure out how to get this 300 to shoot at this point. I can't let it whip me I know it will shoot i just can't figure out whats going on at this point. I've shoot factory accubonds good out to 700 yards. Not sure of the groups but i shoot milk jugs of water at 700 and never missed. even 800 yards was prob 85% or better. So it has to shoot something reloaded better I would think just have to find it. Maybe it's the berger's. Still have to try diff powders too.

 

[Pistol packer]

set and glass,
dont know what kind of rifle you have and i didnt read all of the nine pages of responses. 1-9 to 1-10 twist is needed for that bullet and watch you throat/bullet lands jump. try IMR 4350 from 67 grains (i believe that is correct-check the books). i think mine is around 68.9 grains, but winchester and ruger are more accurate on the high end thanother brands. look at the crown as this is probably the most common reason for intermittant accuracy and one most easily fixed as well as the bedding. i had a 300 that shot the first one always exactly where i held then wandered from there. after nearly a year of trying all kinds of loads, frustration to the point of getting rid of it, i noticed that the stock was barely touching on the right side of the barrel. free floating got my groups into the 3/8 in circle. scope mounts and bedding are two things i would really go over or redo. however, if you are getting good groups with factory loads, then i would go with the 4350 and a bullet with more bearing surface. 4350 is pretty temperature insensitive and my standard deviations are <10 fps. good luck, let us know what you find. am always learning myself.

 

[highridge1]

I am running a 338 Edge 300 gr SMK, RL25, 2880fps have put 5 shots into the .3's ES is only 6 fps. Can't find anything I don't like about it. I started by working with Retumbo and H1000 but ended up with better results with the RL25 it was more accurate had a lower ES and slightly more velocity. Biggest deal for me was The H1000 was very inconsistent lot to lot for me think I just had bad luck,. I have never had that trouble with RL25. Know I am very curious how this New RL33 will work out Hard to not like the edge I have owned and worked with most the 300 mags, 338's etc I don't put the 7mm's and the 300's in the same league as the big 338's the 338's are just much more effective at long range. Heavy bullets, High BC's, more energy, bigger hole. Bucks the wind better.The big 7's and 300's are great but the 338's will always be better.

 

[Bravo 4]

mr. ackley postulated that he thought this had to do with the rotation energy of the bullet, as the velocity and terminal energy at those distances are puny. initial speed and barrel twist determine this factor and IS NOT affected appreciably by distance. getting hit by any projectile going at any speed in the 200.000 RPM range is devastating. anyone with a 7 mm RM, 7 STW, 7 RUM can tell you that they kill with so much more authority than what is on paper, at any range..

What?

Added- sorry, that sounds like I'm calling you out. Care to explain this in detail?

 

[setandglass]

set and glass,
dont know what kind of rifle you have and i didnt read all of the nine pages of responses. 1-9 to 1-10 twist is needed for that bullet and watch you throat/bullet lands jump. try IMR 4350 from 67 grains (i believe that is correct-check the books). i think mine is around 68.9 grains, but winchester and ruger are more accurate on the high end thanother brands. look at the crown as this is probably the most common reason for intermittant accuracy and one most easily fixed as well as the bedding. i had a 300 that shot the first one always exactly where i held then wandered from there. after nearly a year of trying all kinds of loads, frustration to the point of getting rid of it, i noticed that the stock was barely touching on the right side of the barrel. free floating got my groups into the 3/8 in circle. scope mounts and bedding are two things i would really go over or redo. however, if you are getting good groups with factory loads, then i would go with the 4350 and a bullet with more bearing surface. 4350 is pretty temperature insensitive and my standard deviations are <10 fps. good luck, let us know what you find. am always learning myself.

300 weatherby mark V ultra light, the stock is free floating, and i had a target crown put on cause i had a bad spot last year. I don't know how people get these speeds my friend is shooting a 300 ultra mag and he is at 2900 with 210. idk the twist right now forget. idk back to the range 2mar going to check the factory shells see if there still shooting. can you reload the 338 lapu on a stander reloader or is it to big. I know i need die's but would i need to replace the reloader itself?

 

[Pistol packer]

set and glass,
a standard rockchucker will suffice. you can even do 50 BMG on it, but you have to screw the die in and out some. the lapua case should work fine, it isnt any longer than a RUM. RUM, 8 mm mag, 45 Lott all use a full length uncut case.
your mark 5 coould have a lot of free bore in the throat. weatherby was famous for that, to produce more velocity with less pressure. however this jump often caused less accuracy. when reloading you can seat the bullet out to the lands, a few thousands back or just kissing them and that often will tighten a goup up like you wouldnt believe.
again, try 4350 IMR or reloader 22 for higher velocities. if you are getting 2900 FPS, i would be it would be easy to get over 3000 with a 200-210 grainer. good luck.

 

[Pistol packer]

bravo 4,
yeah, really interesting, heh. reading PO Ackley's books once, i came upon some of his experimentations he did with shooting game. he was involved with culling some "jacks" out west one time and he took along a 220 swift. he found that the burros just collapsed when hit with a 55 grainer from the swift and it had nothing to do with shot placement. he puposely started to shoot them in the guts and pelvis and the like, immediate non lethal shots to see what the results would be like. they too died immediately. dropping so fast they bounced upon impact. the blood was found in large "organ like" congealed mass around the point of impact. hydraulic shock was given as the cause of this, but no one had a solid proof of how this worked.
his next step was to shoot them at 500 yards. they still dropped as poleaxed. now the 224 55 grainer is doing 2000 FPS or less and less than 500 ft # at this distance from a 220 swift. a 22 mag according to the stats. he postualted that speed and bullet impact per foot pounds could not do what he was witnessing. after much thought and calculations, he found that the 4000FPS in a 1-10 twist barrel was doing about 200,000 RPM. basicly, he figured that the critter was getting drilled with a 55 gr SP super high speed drill. this rotational energy DOES NOT decrease with distance to any substantial amount. this is what he theorized as the cause of hydraulic shock as this phenomenon occured when the speed was down well below 3300 FPS and occurs even when the speed drops to less than 1000 FPS.
hope this clears things up. you can read it in one of PO's books.

 

[Pistol packer]

upon his experience with the swift, he stated that if he were to limited to only one cartridge/rife for all of his hunting in any part of the world..he would choose the 220 swift. with solid constructed bullets (such as the barnes X-not produced then) he wouldnt feel undergunned in any situation. that is pretty much a quote from the greatest wildcatter in history. i know from experience that a 224 55 gr SP at 4000 FPS will go thru 1/2 inch of armour plate. ackley showed this in photos of a WWII halftrack armour plate hit by a 270,a -06 bullet and a 22, 55 grainer from a swift. the swift was the only one that went thru. imagine if it had been a steel penetrator or copper solid.

 

[setandglass]

set and glass,
a standard rockchucker will suffice. you can even do 50 BMG on it, but you have to screw the die in and out some. the lapua case should work fine, it isnt any longer than a RUM. RUM, 8 mm mag, 45 Lott all use a full length uncut case.
your mark 5 coould have a lot of free bore in the throat. weatherby was famous for that, to produce more velocity with less pressure. however this jump often caused less accuracy. when reloading you can seat the bullet out to the lands, a few thousands back or just kissing them and that often will tighten a goup up like you wouldnt believe.
again, try 4350 IMR or reloader 22 for higher velocities. if you are getting 2900 FPS, i would be it would be easy to get over 3000 with a 200-210 grainer. good luck.

Yeah I got the free bore I'm already loading my bullets long. i have no chance of touching the lands. Measured it and the bullet just sits on top of the neck. I tried r 22 and we thought it would give us 3000+ fps (by the book) it was 2750 to 2800. I have to run my brass thru and reload now I shot everything up. Then i'll run some more thru. I'm tryin to find a consistent powder with less fps spread. I thought i had it with the retumbo. It was fine at 32 deg shoot a good group and only changing like 7fps. but after it warmed up outside to 42 deg then the same load with retumbo went nuts speed went crazy.

 

[Pistol packer]

setandglass,
this is really puzzling. retumbo shouldnt do that with such little difference in temp. have you reloaded a lot? are you new to this? i am reluctant to give out any info on a VERY high end pressure load as this could be disastrous. are you cleaning your cases? what kind of tumbler do you have, what kind of media? how do you weigh the loads?
dont mean to be troublesome, just that i have found the most complex troubles and problems usually have the simplest answers.