Rifle build

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by jrdoty, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. jrdoty

    jrdoty Well-Known Member

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    I just picked up my savage 116fss that will be turned into a long range hunting rifle. I would like to keep it as a 7mm stw. For the barrel I was thinking of a 30" Lilja #7 contour 1-9 twist as I will be shooting only 160 to 180 grain bullets. Stock will probably be a boyds laminated thumbhole(Sound familiar Kirby), and of course have it bedded properly and have the action trued. Please let me know what you guys think. any suggestions would be welcomed. thank you.
     

  2. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    just out of curiosity shoot a few groups and give a report before you change the tube???
     

  3. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Jrdoty,

    Yes sounds a bit familiar. Something like this?

    [​IMG]

    Ya know the 7mm STW is a great round no doubt but why not add a bit more Horsepower and cut that sucker for my hot 270 AM? A lazy load will get you 3300 fps with the 169.5 gr ULD RBBTs!!

    Only problem is that with the Savage receivers, they are not wide enough in the mag box to allow a 270 AM repeater. Still for extreme range shooting this is not a big deal.

    The stock on my rifle is actually a factory Savage Laminate stock which I ordered from MidwayUSA. They have them in stock ready to ship, quicker then boyds and actually very good quality. I would recommend removing the factory pillars in the bedding and have the job redone as the factory Savage pillars do not even contact metal on both ends, at least the ones I have worked on have not. Have these replaced correctly and you will get much better performance!

    On the 7mm STW front, you ever consider getting one of the new 1-7 twist that I had Dan tool up for for my 7mm Allen Mag? these will shoot the huge 200 gr ULD RBBTs as well as any lightr bullet such as the Ballistic Tips or Accubonds.

    This barrel would destroy a conventional jacketed bullet but I feel for a light bullet option the 160 gr Accubond would be very hard to beat along with the Bonded Core bullets from Wildcat Bullets.

    Would give great results with this bullet as well as offer true extreme range performance with the 200 gr ULD RBBT.

    Just another option. I like your choosing the #7 contour. This is a great barrel contour for barrel stiffness.

    If I may, I would make one other recommendation, whoever you have do your rifle or if your doing your own work, if your going to accurize the receiver which I highly recommend, have the barrel fitted like a Rem 700 to get rid of the barrel lock nut system.

    This will solve some bedding issues as well as give the rifle much cleaner lines. IF you do this make sure you order a barrel with a shank diameter of 1.250" and not 1.200 or 1.175".

    This is the only way I fit the barrels for my customers for the Savage in high performance, large cased calibers.

    IT has worked pretty well with my 270 Allen Mag!

    [​IMG]

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  4. jrdoty

    jrdoty Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the input Kirby I did want to use the 1-7 barrel but didn't think that it would work for 160 grain bullets. I also like the idea of the factory savage stock. I think I would like to keep the barrel nut system though, since I could change the barrel myself instead of having a smith charge me $175 to do it. What is your guess for b.c. on those wildcat 200 grainers, and do you think Richard would keep these in stock, or would I have to wait a long time in order to get them. Lastly what scope base would you recommend for a non accutrigger long action. Thank you
     
  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Jrdoty,

    I see your point with the barrel nut if you plan on removing the barrel yourself. That said, I would love to be able to charge $175 to switch barrels!!!! I need to raise my prices I guess /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!

    The 200 gr ULD RBBT will be a standard bullet option for my 7mm Allen Mag and as with the other bullets used in my Allen Mags, Richard has been kind enough to have me stock his bullets for sale. This would mean youcould order directly from me and not deal with the international shipping issues which are not a big deal but we plan to keep these bullets instock at all times.

    I have only used the Leupold base for these savages but there are getting to be more and more tactical style bases out there for the Savage rifles.

    I use the Burris Signature rings along with these standard bases so I have the potential to use the offset inserts to increase vertical adjustment.

    I use the +0.010" insert in the rear of my 270 AM and it easily reaches 1200 yards with the Weaver tactical. Would probably go farther but I have never tried. These are pretty flat shooting rounds though.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  6. 257speed

    257speed Well-Known Member

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    Kirby, Not trying to high-jack the post, but do you have any of the 7mm/200gn bullets?
     
  7. jrdoty

    jrdoty Well-Known Member

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    Kirby,
    What do you charge to switch barrels, and can you tell me a litle more about the 7mm AM, like what kind of velocity with the 200 grainers out of a 30" barrel, and where to find dies. Thanks
     
  8. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    257 Speed,

    I only have prototypes right now. From what Richard tells me, they do not even compare to the production bullets, we will see, supposed to be getting a big shipment of them in soon. Generally when Richard is impressed with a bullet, it is a pretty impressive bullet.

    For some reason, Hunt101.com is not allowing me to upload the picture of them so I will try later and see if it will accept it???

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  9. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Jrdoty,

    Barrel changes really depend on whats need to set up headspace. Some barrels will bolt on as is and for those generally $20. If the headspace is long on the new barrel it is a simply task to take a bit off the barrel shoulder to bring headspace into spec, for this $50.

    If the headspace is short, significantly short where truing up the bolt lugs and botl face will not bring a barrel into headspace spec and the chamber must be lengthened then yes it would run in the $150 to $175 range.

    My 7mm Allen Mag is based on a full length 338 Lapua case with the Allen Mag shoulder configuration and min body taper. For comparision, my 270 Allen Mag based on the 7mm RUM case has a case capacity filled to the mouth with WC872 of 124 gr. We are predicting the 7mm Allen Mag will be at least 135 gr capacity with basically the same neck length and volume so it will be a +10 gr capacity increase.

    Also, the shorter case length of the 7mm Allen Mag will allow the long ULD bullets to be seated out of the powder capacity much more then the 270 Allen Mag offering an even greater usage of the cases capacity.

    Another advantage is the strength of the Lapua case. This case will handle higher loading pressures then the RUM case and as such will have an even greater velocity and performance advantage then the case capacity would have you believe.

    This is not to say the 270 AM is not a great round. It is a fantastic round, the 7mm AM will just be different in a couple ways and as such will also be a bit more expensive to build. especially in a repeating form.

    Redding is already in the process of building the Full Length sizing dies and I will be furnishing the BR in-line seating dies chambered with the same reamers used in the rifles.

    We are predicting 3200 fps with the 200 gr ULD in a 30" 1-7 twist 3 groove Lilja barrel. This with a B.C. in the very high .9 range should result in some amazing ballistic numbers.

    The best thing is that the 200 gr ULD RBBT as well as the lighter 175 gr version are built on a tapered jacket designed for use on medium big game at any range.

    I am hoping to take a couple days this weekend and get my 7mm Allen Mag test rifle built and on the range so I can report on this new hot rod 7mm. We are looking to top the Lazzeroni 7.21 Firebird by at least 100 fps in velocity with all bullet weights. We also hope to get 3900 fps with a 140 gr Bonded Wildcat or Accubond for those that want the ultimate 600 yard pronghorn rifle with lazer flat trajectory!! We will see what happens.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  10. jrdoty

    jrdoty Well-Known Member

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    3200 fps out of a 30" barrel. I think your being fairly modest. the barnes reloading manual shows 338 lapua shooting 200 grainers at over 3300 fps and shows the 7 stw shooting 195 grainers at near 3000fps both with only a 26" barrel. I think your going to be closer to 3400fps with the 200 grain wildcats, but im sure you know a lot more about it than me. Either way i think your going to need a really good muzzle brake. I can't wait to here the results of your testing.
     
  11. ss7mm

    ss7mm Writers Guild

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    jrdoty:

    If you do a search on Kirby and Richard you will find that they are usually conservative on their estimations of the cartridges and bullet combinations they design.

    Don’t be surprised to see him exceed his estimations. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I, for one, hope he does exceed it by a lot. It will be a very impressive round to say the least.
     
  12. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    A 7mm on a 338L sounds good. Hope it works out well.

    I guess I better go and get the penny jar down and see how many is in there. Then I need to update how many days I got left doing 8 to 5 /5 days a week.
     
  13. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Jrdoty,

    Be careful comparing a 200 gr 338 bullet to a 200 gr 7mm bullet. They are extremely different animals to deal with. The baring surface length along is dramatically different for the two bullets.

    Also remember that in a 338 Lapua loaded with a 200 gr bullet, the powders that you are able to use safely are dramatically faster burning then what can be used in a round like the 7mm Allen Mag. The combination of the faster burn rate powders with the shorter baring surface combine for the ability to get very impressive inital velocities.

    The key to making a realistic comparision is to get bullets with similiar sectional densities.

    This is not exact but it gives you an idea what you are comparing. For example, the 200 gr ULD RBBT has a sectional density of .354. For a 338 bullet to equal this it has to weight 285 gr.

    Now put that into the comparision. How fast will a 338 Lapu drive a bullet with a sectional density of .356 compared to the 7mm Allen Mag velocity with a bullet of the same Sectional density.

    A 338 Lapua will probably get into the 2800-2900 fps range in a 30" barrel, we are predicting the 7mm Allen Mag will hit 3200 fps with the same barrel length.

    On top of that compare BC values. A 338 Lapua with a 300 gr ULD or VLD is a 2800 fps round in a 30" barrel and these bullets will have a B.C. in the .790 to .820 range depending on bullet used.

    The 7mm Allen Mag should hit 3200 fps with a 200 gr ULD RBBT and from eveything we have seen on the computer model projections, this bullet should produce a BC in the high .9 range.

    As far as the 7mm STW goes, I have yet to see one hit a solid 3200 fps in a 26" barrel with comfortable working pressures and long case life. Add 35 grains of bullet to that and I would bet you would be hard pressed to reach 2850-2900 fps unless your using a bore riding bullet.

    Also remember that in a relatively small bore like the 7mm shooting 200 gr class bullets, 200-300 fps increases are extremely significant performance boosts.

    Yes we tend to be conservative but that is only because we want to be honest and practical with you. We see far to many guys listing these extreme velocity numbers for their wildcats only to have their one personal rifle ever come close to those specs.

    I would rather predict low and have my guys extremely happy that they are getting more from their rifles. So yes we both tend to be on the conservative side on performance predictions and so far all the Allen Mags have outperformed out goals, I hope the 7mm and 338 will be the same.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)