reticle selection questions

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by John H, Feb 27, 2008.

  1. John H

    John H Member

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    New to the site. I'm very impressed with the knowledge base here.

    I'm thinking of upgrading the scope on my .300 winnie (model 70 classic stainless.) It's wearing a Leupold VX II 3-9 x 40 plex now. I'm considering something in a 4.5-14 x 50. The reticle choices are confusing at best. The rifle is mostly used for elk hunting in western Montana. I'd like to get the rifle dialed in to where a 500 to 600 yd shot is doable. Might do some longer distance paper punching.

    I like the look of the tactical milling reticle - but we are getting into the $1000 + range for a scope, I'd like to get closer to $750 - $800. I don't know how I feel about the B&C type reticles - Are they really any improvement over just using the top of the plex? ( I have a range card for my plex scope based on 4 power drop using the cross hairs and drop using the lower plex, and again for 8 power - it assumes that the scope really is 4 power and 8 power when the power ring is set there)

    I have a range finder, so I'm not sure I really need any better range finding capability on the scope than what you can do with a plex reticle. I figure if its under 300 -350 yds I'm pretty much point blank - If its over that, I hope there is time enough to use the rangefinder and think the shot through.

    John
     
  2. tjonh2001

    tjonh2001 Well-Known Member

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    get a scope with turrits

    jonh if you are going be doing long shots over 300 yards almost all of the guys here use turrits. is still not a bad idea to have a retical that you are familiar with for shots out to 500 yards. you will soon realize that shots to 600 become easy once you get used to turrits. just to let you know i hav a vxs 6.5x20 with m1 turrirs and a tmr retical that were installed at leupods custom shop this would fit your needs. i am thinking of selling it to go to another nightforce...
     

  3. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    I'm going through the same process and have been playing with different reticles.

    I've pretty much decided that the turrets have to be target/tactical turrets with the reticle in MOA and the clicks in MOA. Solves a bunch of problems when its time to "think the shot through".

    However, the choices keep coming back to the Nightforce with the NPR reticle. Some times ya just gotta spend the $ if you want to make the shot. But I still find it hard to let loose of all that change for a piece of glass. But, I've learned that at certain things are critical and all else being considered the glass is the final link to a successful shot.

    FWIW

    I see that tjonh2001 is in the same boat. Hmmmmm.......
     
  4. John H

    John H Member

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    Feb 21, 2008
    We spend a lot of time in doghair lodgepole. I don't think I want to boost the low end too much. the FOV of a 6.5 is pretty tight. The last 2 elk I've taken home with me weren't more than 30 to 40 yd shots. I had an opportunity to take a nice bull at near 500 yds last year too - if I didn't have a cow tag in my pocket for that area it would have been an even better opportunity:eek:.

    I see on optics planet you can order a VX III long range thru the Leupy custom shop with a TMR reticle for right at $800. Not sure what they clip you to add target turrets.

    How repeatable or stable is the VXIII in respects to using the turrets? Does they generally pass the test?

    John
     
  5. sscoyote

    sscoyote Well-Known Member

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    Man, i'd go straight to the Zeiss Conquest with the RR600 reticle. The windage stadia r excellent in that reticle, and it can easily be adapted to reticle-rangefinding.
     
  6. Catfish

    Catfish Well-Known Member

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    Personally I prefer to dial in the drop and use mil dots for wind drift and lead on running targets. I`m a Leupold fan and have an 8 1/2 to 25 on my long range coyote rifle. I carry my drop chart and a wind meter. Once ranged and the wind speed taken is just dial in the distance and hold off useing mil dots. All of those fancy raticals are good for only 1 bullet BC and then at only 1 velosity. Get a 4.5 to 14 VX111 with target knobs and mil dots.
     
  7. woods

    woods Well-Known Member

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    Hey John, take a look at the Zeiss Conquests with the RapidZ 800

    Welcome to Carl Zeiss Optical, Inc.

    With this system it is not true that the reticle is only good for a certain bullet at a certain velocity. Use the RapidZ calculator on their website to calculate the power to set the scope on to match whatever load you are shooting.

    For example the calculator says that for my 300 win mag load shooting a 200 gr Accubond at 2900 fps the power would need to be set on 11.37 power for the reticle to be correct as follows:

    crosshairs - 200 yd zero
    1st bar - 294 yards
    2nd bar - 395 yards
    3rd bar - 496 yards
    4th bar - 600 yards
    5th bar - 705 yards
    6th bar - 812 yards

    Or for a 180 gr Accubond at 3100 fps set the power on 12.46 for

    crosshairs - 200 yd zero
    1st bar - 296 yards
    2nd bar - 398 yards
    3rd bar - 499 yards
    4th bar - 600 yards
    5th bar - 702 yards
    6th bar - 804 yards

    That's pretty close and you will have a Zeiss. My 4.5x14x44 RapidZ 800 costs me $659.00.
     
  8. Rimfire

    Rimfire Well-Known Member

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    Jul 14, 2007
    I think you covered it all "the reticle choices are confusing at best"

    "Id like to get the rifle dialed in to where a 500 - 600 yd shot is doable"
    Dialed in is just that turn the turrets

    Multiple range cards are a bad idea

    Point blank range doesn't have to be pretty much point blank Dial up and hold POA=POI

    As you can see from the range reticle above you need to be on a set power and as you get out further there is a lot of air between readings.

    You can send your scope out and have target turrets installed by Leupold

    If it were me I would Dial up and kill it (KISS) I've hunted with enough people and seen enough missed due to Reticles, multiple range cards and splitting dialing and reticle adjustments to keep me doing what i'm doing. Some may not agree and if it works for them great.

    But when it comes down to it it's hard to beat a Duplex with target / tactical turrets, rangefinder and a proven live fire drop chart. Just my .02
     
  9. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    The V3 "long range" comes with dial up turrets and side focus for parallax adjustment. The V3 longrange is a very good scope and will do what you are asking very well. On the V3, I just use the standard plex and dial all my shots. For hunting close range in timber, the larger duplex will help for those fading light shots. I don't hunt elk in timber anymore but a little eastern whitetail in the timber is a lot harder to see than an elk and the V3 will do that just fine.

    I dial the knobs a lot for antelope hunting and the scope is perfect. In a day the knobs may go up and down four or five times and sometimes I may even shot, but mostly, I am just getting ready and don't shoot.

    So, if you want to keep the cost down and go with a simple and fast solution, buy the V3 Longrange that you suggest with the standard plex and tape your drop chart to your stock and dial the turrets. It takes a little while to get set up for a 800 yard shot no matter what method you use and so sometimes you wind up with the animal just walking off while you are fiddling with gear but that is just the way hunting is. I have had plenty of animals just move off while I was rummaging around for gear or trying to find where I laid my glasses.

    I am not saying the Zeiss is a bad scope because I have never hunted with it. I have hunted with the V3 and I know that scope. Just me, I do not particularly like the NF NPR reticles for working in the timber. I have tried it and they are not well suited for that. They are a great long range reticule but not anywhere close to my first choice in heavy timber. A standard plex is so much faster.

    I do not believe there is any one perfect scope for everything. If you intend to keep doing what you have been doing which seems to work for you very well then go with a simple and fast scope such as the V3 long range
     
  10. Jacob Johnson

    Jacob Johnson Member

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    Nov 26, 2007
    John H,

    I have a winchester model 70 in the 300 win. mag. The scope I went with is the VXIII 4.5-14X50 long range. I have the varmit hunter reticle. I also had the elevation turret put on so there is no guessing. I am really impressed with the varmit hunter reticle. It does a good job with the holdover marks out to about 400 yards. I shot the gun a lot before installing the turret. For hunting I do not like to guess, so any shot over 200 yards I dial my turret. The varmit reticle has some windage marks that work great. I have used it in the timber at close range and it worked great. With a little practice the holdover marks could be very accurate. Just my opinion, leupold makes a great product.

    Jacob
     
  11. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    Next fall I will have a VX-3 LR/T with Holland's ART reticle.

    The MOA is listed in the reticle every 3MOA with a dot the there is a dash that is half way in between Dot=3MOA, dash=4.5 MOA, Dot=6MOA, dash=7.5MOA, dot=9MOA, etc. Etched glass reticle allows you to see the #'s in the scope to help avoid confusion trying to count.
    Works with any cartridge at any at any speed at any elevation, since the reticle is in MOA.
    Since it is a second focal plane scope you must have the scope set at its highest magnification for correct MOA subtension with the dots and dashes.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2008
  12. John H

    John H Member

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    This Holland reticle looks like the TMR reticle available from Leupold. This is the reticle that I'm thinking is going to work for me.

    It's a $200 upgrade on the VXIII long range ( I Think) - its available as a standard on the Mk 4.

    Thanks all for the input.

    I think if I were going to design a scope I'd want 50 mm obj. first focal plane etched TMR like reticle, turrets, 30 mm tube, side focus.

    John
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2008
  13. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    There is some similarity to the TMR and the ART. I have had both.
    The TMR doesn't have the MOA or in this case MIL's listed in the reticle like the ART reticle does and second, your turret adjustments are in MOA and the reticle is in mils.

    As long as you have your drop chart set up it shouldn't be a problem.
    I definitely prefer the TMR over the standard mil-dot reticle
     
  14. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    Forgot to mention, Leupold has a FFP Mark 4 in 8.5-25 with the TMR reticle and I think a Mark in 6.5-20 FFP also. I'm sure the 4.5-14 will be next if not already in the works.

    FFP is my preferred type for LR hunting with a multi-dash/dot reticle also.
    I know that Darrell Holland is working on getting the ART reticle ready for the MArk 4 FFP scopes.