REMINGTON VLS.308?

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by kc, Jan 10, 2003.

  1. kc

    kc Well-Known Member

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    She is a real good shooter and made it known at 100" OK!! this aint nothing! I have sweetened the trigger to a wisper, the barrel is floated from the action out the forarm 1/8 even when it gets warm it is still floating the action is next to be bedded.. What next guys??????
    Keith..
     
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  3. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

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    Good to see I wasn't the only one having a good day!

    Went to the range today w/ the 700VS and 50rds of the 175gr SMK / 45.0gr Varget / CCI BR2 / Winchester case load that it used to like so much, to put the Sightron SII6-24x42mm w/ dot reticle thru the wringer. Gun and load actually shot pretty well, though as usual I had much better success w/ the scope on 10x than on 24x. Some of that may be due to the mirage because I probably need to slow down my shooting some, and I start getting some boiling rising off the end of the barrel. Once I got it zeroed, I did the 'box' drill w/ it, shooting two at the center, then went and went up 5 MOA, right 5 MOA, fired one shot, then down 5, fire one, left 5, fired one, etc. for a total of twelve shots, of which shots #1,2,5,9,12 were nestledin the center in a group you could just about cover w/ a nickel! That's the good news. The bad news was that the '5 minutes' ended up moving like 6 inches, both up, down, left and right. Guess the '1/8 MOA' clicks are a little more than that.

    As far as you rifle, Keith, I'd say look into a) getting it pillar and glass bedded, and b) a Shilen trigger or something similar (Timney, Rifle Basix). Jewell triggers are very nice, but they are priced to match, and I think they are just a bit much for a gun that gets carried around, shot from a bipod, sling, etc. No need for a trigger that goes down to ounces for that, really. And if you are going to leave it at 2-3#, a Shilen will work just fine, for less than half the cost. Of course, another option is lightening it yourself (sounds like you may have), though results may vary. I have one 700VS that I got the trigger down to 2.25# safely, but my newer one I think I had to stop at 3-3.25# or so. IIRC, Neil Jones (makes some very nice custom dies, etc.) can tune it down to 1.5-2# or so, from what I hear, for about $50 if you send it to him. Probably what I'll end up doing w/ mine this spring.

    S1, it is a laminate stock. No integral bedding block.

    Monte
     
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  5. kc

    kc Well-Known Member

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    I have not bedded the stock yet, there is no
    alumium block and have made no decision on
    the recoil lug. I am planing to keep the trigger, I tweeked it and avery one that has shot her says this is perfect.There are a few that I tweeked for my friends and they gave me that job" aint life great?
    Thanks to all..Keith.
     
  6. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Keith,

    If you really want to get to the bottom of the rifle's potential, have a new improved firing pin and spring installed, and the biggest bang for the buck, send it in to McMillan and have a McMillan stock made and bedded for your rifle, it costs about 600 bucks bedded, you will never be sorry!

    I recomend the old M40-A1.
    Check em out at www.mcmfamily.com
     
  7. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

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    Pray tell, how is getting a stock job that costs as much or more than the whole gun did a worthwhile investment, before something like a bedding or trigger job, or improved springs? Hell, I'd consider a new barrel before spending $600 on a stock. Maybe I'm missing something here?

    Monte
     
  8. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Milanuk,

    Yes you are missing somthing here, remington for the most part have good barrels, unless you get a lemon, their stocks however suck. One of the best things you can do to a Rem 700 is upgrade the stock, I usually see average groups in 1/2. Oh and a new pin and spring might cost 65 bucks.
     
  9. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm... that's interesting. Never noticed it myself. I'll agree that they aren't perfect, but I personally don't thing there is $600 worth of 'wrong' with them either. Care to share what precisely constitutes 'sucks' to you? I have two 700VS's, one w/ a HS Precision stock w/ the aluminum bedding block, and a newer one of the same style that I'm not entirely sure if it's an HS Precision, or one of the new Bell-n-Carlson ones that Remington switched to to save money. In any even, both guns shot pretty well to start w/, and a simple skim bedding (~$50) to ensure 100% contact dropped both of them down to averaging 1/2" or less. I had them both lengthened, one w/ an adjustable Graco, one w/ just spacers (that one is destined for a Tubbs adjustable buttplate). Didn't really affect the physical accuracy, but did make them more comfortable to shoot.

    Me, I have more gripes w/ their barrels. They seem to shoot pretty well, but both of mine are a PITA to clean, and both have some dimensions that are less than optimal.

    I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement. I just don't see there being that much benefit of getting the gun a $600 McMillan stock fitted to it, vs getting some pillars, and bedded, which would cost what, $150-200 depending who does it and where, vs. $600 for a new McMillan stock. Ultimately, though, it isn't your $$$ or mine for that matter, so it's a moot point for the most part [​IMG] I guess Keith has at least two different view points to choose from at this stage, and either one should do just fine.

    YMMV,

    Monte
     
  10. kc

    kc Well-Known Member

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    Guys!
    I am getting all this" I am not blowing off the input here. What I would like is for this rifle to shoot as good as my .223 3/8 MOA.Dang nice for squrrels at 200
    yards..All my groups run virtical in a
    45 degree patern(308). I will get this problem solved soon It will be done wright,no sloppy work. keep up with the input.What should I expect of this caliber(308)?
    Keith...
     
  11. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Sorry guys,

    I didnt mean to rock the boat. Its just that in this sport the sky is the limit. Sure there is nothing wrong with bedding an existing stock. But whether you are upgrading a stock, a barrel, a trigger, or even ammunition if you have to have the absolte best, you must be willing to pay for it. If one sets a standard of .5 MOA he is more likely to see those results with a factory rifle with strict attention to detail. If the next guy wants to shoot .375 MOA it becomes incresingly more difficult. It can in some cases require more than shooter skill and tedious handloading. In alot of cases, bedding an existing stock may give the needed edge. Sometimes croyogenically relieving the barrel might give you the right results. When a shooter wants .125 MOA or less, you either have to get really lucky to get a factory rifle that will do that, or you pay for it. It all depends on what a person wants and what he is willing to pay for it. Keith, if you are looking for .375 MOA, before I would do much of anything with the rifle unless it has to do with shooter comfort or trigger work, try your best handloading tequniques with at least 5 powders if not 7 or 8 using the bullet you want. If you dont come close, try another bullet. I would start with a MK 168. Clean your barrel every time you fire a new set of groups with a different powder for the best results. For instance say you start with VARGET, starting with a clean barrel, shoot 3 foul shots of a mid range load. Then fire a 3 shot group of your minimum load, then 3 loaded 1 grain up, keeping an eye out for exsessive pressure signs. With VARGET start at 44 then 45 then 46. Save all your targets for comparison. I like to stick 1" spots on an 8.5x11" sheet of paper and then 3 hole punch them and put them in a binder. Clean the barrel and repeat the process with a new powder. Most powders will only need 1 fouling shot, some will not need any, and some will need 3. In my gun i need 4 shots to get VARGET to work well. Once you have all the targets, compare, choose the best ones and work on them from there. Start by adding or deleting .5 a grain, from there .2 until the optimum is found. Also try seating them farther forward. In the 700 SA you can seat them up to 2.830 without feeding problems. If then you want tighter groups, upgrades will be needed. What kind of upgrades depends on you and what you want to spend. The issue of the stock is only my opinion and what I have found works for me. To me, the McMillan stock and the 700 fit perfectly, from my comfort, and shooting style, and in my opinion they make the best stock moeny can buy. Also, you dont have to get them bedded if you dont want to. I have seen improvements in performance with their stocks if they are just ordered and dropped in. This cuts down on cost consideralbly. But there is nothing wrong with bedding the factory stock if that better suits ones needs.

    You can expect great things from your 308 if you use it within the peramiters it was designed for. I used to be dissapointed in it because I was used to the latest and greatest super magnums on the market and the 308 was slow in comparison. I always tried to "hotrod" them, and it doesent always work that way. Once I started to catch on to how to get the most out of it, it became much more enjoyable to shoot. Now that is all I will shoot. If you stick to the loading instructions above, coupled with your own style of reloading, you will most likely find several loads that will group in the .5 range, and a couple in the .375 range.

    Good shooting to you.
     
  12. kc

    kc Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Michael"
    This is to be one of those posts that get coppied..I Bedded my action up to the recoil lug. I disasembeled the action right down to the trigger(removal), this job was a little messie" buy the way guys! I dont won't to sound like I am to ignorant" but what the hey is piller bedding? My barrel is floated up to the action, at that place of conection I have taped the stock and the barrel as to float the barrel out to the end.
    PS...I don't know where you guys are but I have been out shhotin for the last 3 days and it is ccccccoolld here in Michigan..
    Keith..
     
  13. milanuk

    milanuk Well-Known Member

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    Keith,

    Pillar bedding is where you bore out the holes for the actions screws to accept (relatively) large metal tubes, or pillars. The idea is that when you repeatedly tighten and loosen the action screws in a wood stock, even a laminate, the wood fibers are compressed, and possibly even crushed. So w/ the pillars, you are tightening down to where the action screws are sucking the stock to the gun, but the screws are pulling the pillar up to the action, or a floor plate to the pillar to the action. The pillars are epoxied or bedded into the stock, so they are not going anywhere. Basically makes for a consistent, repeatable, metal to metal fit. Add to that having the rest of the action bedded so that the cylindrical portion of the action, and the rear of the recoil lug, etc. are making 100% contact, and you have a solid, even foundation for your rifle, that should result in the stock fitting your barrelled action like a glove.

    Brownells carries the pillars, I think from Score-High gunsmithing, among others. Some are 'adjustable', in that instead of having to get ones that are too long, and trim to fit, they screw out to the desired length, and then bed them into the stock permanently.

    HTH,

    Monte
     
  14. kc

    kc Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the responce on piller bedding.
    Keith..