Remington 700 sendero. 300 win

[Joefrazell]

I'd run a ladder test instead of burning 3shot groups.

What's the bennifits of a ladder test over shooting groups?

 

[dfanonymous]

What's the bennifits of a ladder test over shooting groups?

Its basically a method of finding a load that is tolerant of minor variations. Load up several loads with a gradual increase in powder weight. You are trying to find a charge range and try to find a low SD on the chronograph. it's a way of testing out a whole range of variables to find what works best for your rifle. Bear in mind, as i've been saying, that in most cases, when it comes down to accuracy, the shooter makes far more difference than the load

 

[Joefrazell]

I really appreciate all the help I've been getting with suggestions. I'll try the ladder test. Is it the same thing as a optimal charge weight test?

 

[Joefrazell]

So I made it back out last night after it cooled off a bit and was able to shoot two groups of 4 shots each. 76gr. And 77. Still using retumbo and 210 vld's. The accuracy has gotten tigher and tighter from 74 grains as I continue to raise the charge. Both 76 and 77 grains produced sub moa. I attached a pic of the two groups. I'll continue to gain in charge weight and see what happens. I feel this load may end up working out if things continue to tighten and once I play with seating depth. I'm .020 off the lands. Does anyone know what the max charge will be roughly? I'm thinking 82gr. But not sure.

 

[ohiohunter]

You can do a pressure test along w/ your ladder test. The last test I ran left me with 1/2" groups and to find that charge only took 10rnds or so. Not knocking you, but no one knows your experience nor what you're shooting off of which kind of makes these groups a moot point of quasi data. I know plenty of people who can't get a 1/4moa gun to shoot 1moa. Not to mention your dots are kind of ragged, and big for precision work.

 

[Joefrazell]

You can do a pressure test along w/ your ladder test. The last test I ran left me with 1/2" groups and to find that charge only took 10rnds or so. Not knocking you, but no one knows your experience nor what you're shooting off of which kind of makes these groups a moot point of quasi data. I know plenty of people who can't get a 1/4moa gun to shoot 1moa. Not to mention your dots are kind of ragged, and big for precision work.

I'm shooting off a build up of a firm pillow and sweater and a sweater for a rear support. I've been doing it this way for years. As far as the target dots go there about 1/2" to 3/4" in the center of the black ring. I find at this point I can put my cross hairs in the center and see a slight amout of the white from the center of the target on all 4 corners of my cross hairs if that makes any sense. I'm able to get shots touching with my 6.5 creedmoor doing exactly that and it shoots 1/2 moa 5 shot groups consecutively. I don't have a ton of experience and that's why I'm here to learn

 

[Joefrazell]

You can do a pressure test along w/ your ladder test. The last test I ran left me with 1/2" groups and to find that charge only took 10rnds or so. Not knocking you, but no one knows your experience nor what you're shooting off of which kind of makes these groups a moot point of quasi data. I know plenty of people who can't get a 1/4moa gun to shoot 1moa. Not to mention your dots are kind of ragged, and big for precision work.

What grain increments do you do for a ladder test? What distance? I don't have a chrono yet either. Would it be a waste without one in your opinion?

 

[dfanonymous]

What grain increments do you do for a ladder test? What distance? I don't have a chrono yet either. Would it be a waste without one in your opinion?

Are you shooting long range or shooting for groups? Because it really depends. Also different chronos will be able to pick up things like SD and ES and different ones do better than others at different price points. Its not all about muzzle velocity, but that is also important too.

 

[Joefrazell]

Are you shooting long range or shooting for groups? Because it really depends. Also different chronos will be able to pick up things like SD and ES and different ones do better than others at different price points. Its not all about muzzle velocity, but that is also important too.

The purpose of the gun is long range. I'm wanting to shoot 1000 yrds plus and the rifle is set up to shoot 1500 yrds roughly. It's also gunna be a long range hunting rifle for shots out to 600 yrds.

 

[dfanonymous]

The purpose of the gun is long range. I'm wanting to shoot 1000 yrds plus and the rifle is set up to shoot 1500 yrds roughly. It's also gunna be a long range hunting rifle for shots out to 600 yrds.

Well then, it is my opinion based off some science, that you will probably want to invest in a chrono for those distances. Muzzle velocity is important, you may have to true it if you use a ballistic engine of whatever sorts. I've found that TRASOL is pretty decent so far...I havent had to true anything yet, but I am still running my own test on it. More importantly, your standard deviation will give you a good idea what your hit probability will be at range, whether its factory or hand loaded ammo. Your extreme spread many will argue is important, although I dont worry about it as much as I chalk a lot of it up to shooter error, or the chrono. If you have good groups and less than a 15 fps SD then, I call that decent. I'm sure others will chime in with different opinions, but you can have a good ES and bad SD and a good SD and bad ES. To reiterate I chalk it up to the shooter, and the equipment. I would look at the pros and cons of a light sensor chrono, magneto speed and labradar.

 

[dfanonymous]

and I do my load work ups, or dope at 100y. That's just me, a lot of the F-class dudes probably have some fancier ways of getting things down to the nitty gritty, and do a lot of work to get moa groups at distance so I'm sure any advise they have for handloads will be of value. I still use data books, so I write down most of my real world results and conditions and then unlayer them to make sense with my specific load so I can understand all the W's involved. For the factory ammo haters, I hit a 9 in steel plate at about 1050y every week with factory ammo. So like I said, a chrono (or data), good understanding and some good shooting goes a long way...literally.

 

[Joefrazell]

Cool I appreciate the input! I have looked at the magneto speed but that's about it. I thought they were the best for a realistic budget. I'll have to do my research and get one when $ allows. My plan for now is to take my best load I can get out to 300 yrd and see what it looks like then 500 and check again making sure my ballistics calculator is spot on and continue out to a distance I can consistently hit my 12" steel gong. Hopefully that will be at least 800 yrds. I'm going to get some 7828 soon and do a ladder test. I like the idea of the ladder test to get your best load and then seeing how it does from there.

 

[WildRose]

Retumbo never shot worth a crap for me in ANY of my rifles... H1000 gave me temp instabilities. The best all-around powder I found was IMR 7828 SSC. Another good one to try is IMR's newest Enduron (temp stable) powder 7977. It's VERY close to H1000 on the burn chart.

H1000 is rarely if ever the fastest powder but it's incredibly consistent or has been for me.

 

[WildRose]

So I made it out today. Wanted to post pics but can't figure out how. O installed a timney and bedded the recoil lug (not the whole action). Got some berger 210 vld's and some retumbo. Made up 4 bullets of 74gr. 4 bullets of 74.5 and 4 of 75gr. Of powder. New hornady brass and winchester magnum primers.
.018" off lands

74 gr. Group size was 1.325"
74.5 group size was 1.292". (3 shots went .7 roughly)
75 gr was 1.146" (3 shots went .6 roughly)

Kinda have mixed feelings as anyone would hope for better. I know I need to keep going up in my charge weight. Probably 7 or 8 grains from max. Shot from prone over a bag. Shots felt pretty good but id say there was definitely a small amount of error on my part. I have some h1000 I'll try but not much so only probably a couple charge weights. I'm really hoping to get 5 shots into a inch or better. What do you guys think?

I would do a seating depth test. Berger's are notoriously finicky about seating depth.