Reloading Techniques

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by Sludge, Jan 2, 2004.

  1. Sludge

    Sludge Well-Known Member

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    Ok folks, Im new to the board. I have been starting to work on doing something beyond the average deer hunting ranges. I have a few spots on the farm here that I can approach the 1000yd mark. Yup, I know that there isnt anything out there for your shooting skills like sweat equity, but I would like to shorten the learning curve some on the reloading side if possible. So, let me first tell ya a little about what I am currently doing to my loads. Im kinda just figuring this stuff out alone, so excuse me if im screwing myself up. I take constructive critisism well... so speak up [​IMG]

    Ok, the primary caliber I am working with at the moment is the .300 Win Mag. I have a used Sendaro that I purchased and I mounted a Nikon Tactical 6.5x14x50 on some leupold rings and shimmed it for the long stuff. I am using a RCBS Rock Chucker and I am trying the RCBS and Redding dies. I think I like the Redding dies better right now... Anyway, I purchased myself a case trimmer, neck turner, and a dial indicator to check the runout with. I have taken once fired brass and neck and length turned them. I have weighed the brass into groups that are within about .2 grains. I also weighed the bullets that I am experimenting with into groups by .1 grain increments. Im using some mica on my case neck brush to aid in sizing and when seating the bullets.

    I am cleaning the primer pockets and using Federal Match primers and am testing both HPBT and Ballistic Tips in the 168, 180, and 210gr ranges. Initial tests seem to show that the gun is liking the heaver/longer bullets. I think this may be due to matching the bullet closer to the twist rate of the Sendaro which has a 10" twist. According to the Greenhill formula the 210 Bergers should be almost perfect. Time will tell... BTW, most work so far has been done with Reloader 22 and 25.

    I am seating the bullets in small increments and rotating the casing a little with each increment. This has seemed to help reduce the runout. My max runouts seem to be around 3 thousandths. Most are in the 1 to 2 thousandth range. The Redding dies did much better seating with less runout than did the RCBS, however neither are competition dies. Maybe I should invest in some of those.

    As far as bullet seating depth, I am seating as best that I can tell) about 20 thousandths back off the rifling. I was a little scared to push the bullet too close to the rifling. Maybe im just a wussie [​IMG]

    Oh, for my powder handling I played with using my RCBS electronic powder dispenser and scale, but I just havent felt it was accurate enough. So, I let it throw me a close charge that is a tenth or so shy of the goal and then use the beam scale to trickle it up to as perfect a load as my patients can stand.


    I think the rotating the bullet while seating has worked well for me... I think the mica has also helped some. Maybe Im full of sh*t ... maybe im being too dang careful... I dont know. This is all new ground for me.

    Suggestions? Comments?
     
  2. *WyoWhisper*

    *WyoWhisper* Guest

    So far things look good...!

    I have found that .30 cal. love to be seated .020 off the lands.. just has worked in EVERY .30 rifle I've owned..

    I would opt for Night Force or Badger 20 MOA bases and Badger rings for your scopes...
    I turn case necks not to much but just enough to clean them up.. this has done wonders...
    Your bullet seater should be the competition type from Redding... I usually have RCBS FL dies and Redding or Forester Ultra Seater or Redding Competition seaters and I shoot groups into the .2's.. well this has ALOT to do with the guy who built the gun too!

    THe 300WM's seem to like 190 SMK's but the 200 gr Nosler Accubonds have a great review and I like them myself..

    get yourself the latest sierra reloading manual.. I have used this over the past year and it is dead on with the most accurate loads.. I get velocities a bit faster then what they printed though...

    I have the pact digital scale ( same as RCBS) and I zero the scale EVERYTIME before throwing a powder charge.. I usually set it .2 grs short and trickle up to reduce the ES.. so you're on the money there... typically you can be .1-.2 grs off and not have much effect...

    you seem to be doing really well and all you need to do is burn some powder. Get in some trigger time...

    You should set your trigger to 2-3 lbs if you can't do it most competant smiths can do it quick and cheap...

    Ric
     

  3. baldeagle713

    baldeagle713 Well-Known Member

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    *WyoWhisper*
    Sounds good to me.
    Find a load that works well. Then play with the OAL to find the sweet spot. [​IMG]
    My 270 WSM with 110 Horandy Vmax love being
    shoved into the lans about .002. While the 150 Horandy SST likes to be .010 off the lans.
    Play with it and like a good woman she'll let ya know where the sweet spot is. [​IMG]
     
  4. Sludge

    Sludge Well-Known Member

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    Jan 2, 2004
    Thanks for the reply guys

    I have been thinking about a jewel trigger, but before I dropped another 250 bucks in this rifle I wanted to see it group a little better. Thus far it has been a little under a 1 MOA gun. Out of 5 round groups it will put about 3 or 4 in one small ragged hole lets say about 1/2 MOA then it will throw a flyer.

    The bullets I have been working with thus far were the following.

    Sierra MK 168 HPBT
    Hornady V-Max 168 Ballistic Tip BT
    Hornady National Match HPBT 180
    Nosler 180 Ballistic Tip BT
    Berger 210 HPBT

    I dont have my reloading log infront of me at the moment, but if I remember right my speeds were just a hair under the Sierra Manual for the R-25.

    This used Sendaro also had a break on it so perhaps this has changed the velocity a small bit. Do they hurt or help accuracy? I can shoot the gun all day with or without it. However, I leave it on most of the time just to protect the crown and the threads.

    As far as the powder loads, when doing it with the beam im down to either taking or giving one small stick of powder. The loads are as perfectly matched as I know how to make em.

    I havent used Badger rings before. However, I have purchased accessories for my AR15 from Badger. So, I know where to go to look.

    My neck turning cleans up most cases, but doesnt quite clean em all up. I trimmed enough down to take almost all the inconsistancy off the necks. I was afraid to trim more.


    After about 20 rounds or so I clean with JB Bore Cleaner (maybe 80 passes or so) then I use Montana Extreme bore solvent to get the JB out followed by about 40 passes of JB Bore Bright. Followed again by the Montana until the patch stays white. Then I run a couple passes through with CLP and one dry patch to clean up.

    Am I over cleaning?
     
  5. baldeagle713

    baldeagle713 Well-Known Member

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    Careful with the JB!
    I think You are over doing it with the JB.
    Honesty.
    Once every 300 rounds maybe. OR when your showing sighns of Bad coppering.
     
  6. Sludge

    Sludge Well-Known Member

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    I guess I got carried away a little because when I got the gun it had a hard time keeping em in a pie plate at 100yds. The more I have used the JB the tighter it has gotten LOL. After about 3 or 4 sessons with the JB though I think its finally clean. Looks like a mirror in there.
     
  7. baldeagle713

    baldeagle713 Well-Known Member

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    If it looks like a mirror in there your there. The montana extream should do the trick now. [​IMG]
     
  8. 4mesh063

    4mesh063 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Sludge,

    Jewell triggers are $150 at Russ Haydon Shooters Supply. Great people to deal with too. They've got an entire toys r us for gun folks.
     
  9. Sludge

    Sludge Well-Known Member

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    tks for the info. They sure have Midway USA beat on em.
     
  10. James D.

    James D. Well-Known Member

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    Montana Extreme, WARNING: STRONG VAPORS!

    I opened up a bottle awhile ago, this stuff is deadly! I am cleaning my bore out, previously I used Hoppes #9 Benchrest formula but this stuff is getting even more crud out. DO NOT SNIFF THE BOTTLE, it doesn't have the aroma of the original Hoppes #9. Opening windows and ventilation is necessary if your in a house, if your in an open space you should be fine.
     
  11. Sludge

    Sludge Well-Known Member

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    LOL yea the smell is kinda on the strong side
     
  12. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't worry too much about the JB, my 300 Ultra (factory barrel too) polished up nicely with many strokes using the stuff, now it copper fouls very little, Flitz works well too. The new Lilja barrel gets the JB treatment just as well.

    I hate to suggest a bullet that's even more expensive, and one you probably don't even need, as far as terminal performance, but the Accubond has proven very accurate in two of my rifles, you just might try it and see.

    Try the loads with and without the brake on it. The 300wm isn't that much recoil and it may shoot better without it, it will change harmonics.

    Size your brass for zero headspace.
    Inline or competition sleved type seater will help RO numbers too.
    RO numbers may be "high" on "fired" cases, ie. offset chamber neck (like mine, .005" RO) or thin brass on one side of neck. Look at the RO numbers after each step. Rotating 180 deg midway on seating can help, although I think the die setup pretty much determines the outcome no matter what you do here.

    I don't use mica, never worked at all for me. I don't clean the powder residue from the necks either, I think it keeps the bullet from bonding to the brass and keeps things more consistant if the ammo sets loaded longer than a few hours. I also don't tumble brass either. They get cleaned off with a damp rag after using water soluble lube, Redding or RCBS, either one, the water soluble type tho. Brass is clean enough for my beauty pagents. [​IMG] Necks for factory chambers are nk turned for 80-100% cleanup. Bullets seated on lands, or into lands .010" to start any development. Ladder test to note MV and group nodes at 300 yards or more. Ladder test again to confirm the first one wasn't BS. Clean too often and you'll often deal with powder fouling inconsistancies that screw your tests all up. Often takes three or more to settle in, even when changing bullets or powder... stick with one combo throughout test. Know that these could be affecting groups if switching powder or bullet, best to start clean.

    Hard to say what's causing the fliers. If you're using a 210M, try a 215M, or the other way around with what looks like a good load.

    Do the groups string vertical, or horizontal.... or just round with a flier?

    Only change one component at a time.

    You might try H4831 or H4350 too.

    I decide on a powder, then find the best bullet, then best OAL, then best primer...
     
  13. Lee in OH

    Lee in OH Well-Known Member

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    To SCO.... I did the exact same thing when I got my first bottle of MEX. I wanted to see how effective it smelled. About put me on the ground!!!! My eyes watered for a good five minutes and I couldn't smell anything but ammonia for about an hour.

    That was a quick lifelong lesson....
     
  14. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    For guys wanting to get into serious accuracy reloading, best book is Sinclairs 10th Edition Sinclairs Int Reloading and Shooting Handbook. #BK10 at $12.95 at www.sinclairintl.com

    BH