Reloading for VLD bullets

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by ZSteinle, Jul 2, 2010.

  1. ZSteinle

    ZSteinle Well-Known Member

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    I seem to have the hardest time loading up VLD bullets! I don't know if I don’t have enough patience or what. I will start with my most recent pain. Winchester model 70 7mmWSM benchmark barrel trued action and bedded. Loaded up some 168 bergers the other day for it following bergers loading instructions with the distance off the lands deal. .010 off the lands didn’t shoot for nothing, .035 off the lands didn’t shoot for nothing, then .050 off the lands it put 3 in just over 1/4 MOA. I’m thinking to myself finally I get some VLD's to shoot great I was so amazed. But in the back of my mind I’m thinking no way could this be true. So head back home and load up 6 with the same exact load that had shot 1/4 MOA the day before and 6 loaded up at .040 off the lands and head to the range. I will also mention that after I had shot the 1/4 moa group I cleaned the rifle like I normally do. Once I got to the range I put 2 fouling shots through it and loaded up the .050 off the lands rounds, needless to say it put 4 in a group about the size of a pie plate and the same for the ones that were loaded .040 off the lands. MV's were 3020-3030 with an ES of around 12. My next headache would be for a .264 win mag. Got some 140 JLK's thinking if I can get these things to shoot it would be just sweet. pretty much the same story as above but one day it shot 1/2 to 1/4 inch with them loaded .1 off the lands and the next day there at 4-5 inch groups with the same exact load and same lot of prepped brass, the same day just after shooting 4-5 inch groups with the jlks I throw in my trusty amax load and it shot 1/4" just like it always does with amax. Just seems to me like I have the hardest time getting them to shoot consistently, they will show some promise one day and the next day they will just tick me off. Seems like the amaxs will always shoot consistent and hardly ever give me any surprises. Appears that a lot of people love the berger bullets but I just can’t, not yet anyway. Anyone have some tricks that could help me out?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2010

  2. dwm

    dwm Well-Known Member

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    It is possible that 2 shots are not enough to fully foul the barrel after a good cleaning.
     

  3. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    .030
    .050
    .090
    .130
    These depths are off the lands
    Shoot 6 rounds each seating depth at 200 yards this will give you a good starting point for your load if you get lucky you will find a good load during the test.

    Jon
     
  4. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Are you measuring your COAL from base of brass to tip of bullet to get ''consistant'' seating depth, or using a Hornady tool and measuring to the Ogive? Do you have a way to measure runout? It seems somewhat rare, but it does happen that some rifles just like what they like. Maybe your rifle doesnt like VLD's. or maybe its something simple, like measuring with a comparator. They seem to be the most honest way to get a true measurement.
     
  5. ZSteinle

    ZSteinle Well-Known Member

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    yes i am using a bullet comparator. And i can see that its possible 2 shots might not be enough to fould out a barrel but i have had the same results with at least 4 different rifles. I know i have enough twist to shoot the 168 7mm vlds. And might not have enough for the jlk's outta my 264 but it shot 1/4 inch one day and 4 inches the next.
     
  6. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Im stumped. But Ill bet Boomtube, or Boss Hoss or one of the other B/R shooters will chime in and point out something obvious (to them) that were missing. You got me wondering.......
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2010
  7. WRG

    WRG Well-Known Member

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    I feel your pain and gave up myself! Wasted many bullets, powders, & primers trying to get the VLD to fly. Best I could achieve was MOA in a 25-06. Also tried them in my 7mm RM & 300 WM with no better results. Many who have had success will tell you it takes some distance before the bullet goes to sleep and load developement needs to be done further than the normal 100 yards. It truely is a long range bullet and not sure how well it would perform as far as expandtion on game animals at high velocity under 100 yards anyways.

    With other bullets that I have had success with, your TTSX, Combined Technology, Sierra and so on, I seem to find best results when I know what the particular rifles velocity vibration nodes are. Accuracy was there if I targeted those velocities no matter which bullet I was testing though one bullet would stand out from the others. However, I did change the way I did my testing and got away from the basic ladder work-up and switched to Dan Newbury's method. Simular in some aspects to the ladder but uses a round robin approach which has yielded a much easier and faster way to locate those velocity nodes. But nothing I own liked the VLD no matter what I tried. Followed Bergers recommedations to a tee with no success and decided they were not worth the effort and moved on. If punching paper is your game you can't go wrong with the SMK or if your looking for a hunting bullet there are better bullets out there that are less difficult to work with. IMO


    WRG
     
  8. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

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    Inconsistency can drive all of us nutz!! I assume you are using a good solid front and rear rest, and that your scope and mounts are tight. Is the barrel floated? Bedding OK?

    VLD's have a reputation for inconsistency. As said above, some rifles just don't like them. If your A-Max shoots well, stay with that. I don't shoot VLD's in hunting rifles just because of the frustration in getting good accuracy with them. I do load them in single shot competition rifles, .224 and 6mm. With these, I always jam them, and most shooters agree that they shoot best when in the lands .010 - 030". Do not jam them in a hunting rifle.
     
  9. eaglesnester

    eaglesnester Well-Known Member

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    I can not diagnose your problem but I can tell you what helped me as I was in a situation similar to your VLD OAL and accuracy problems.
    First off I found that the action screws on my rifle were loose. I torqued em up to spec, this helped tighten up the groups. My scope was also moving from heavy recoil. Had to remove it and clean the rings and re-mount with blue loctite.
    Next I had to practice my feel on the Hornady OAL bullet comparator when measuring distance to the lands inside the rifle. You can get as much as .020 error if your FEEL is not correct. Same thing goes for your caliper. When you put the two possible errors together your .020 off the lands is really .050 off the lands. I can not describe to you how to get the machinist feel when measuring but you will know it when you develop it because your measurments will be the same time after time when measuring freebore.
    I also found that with the Burger VLD 168 gr., they liked 150 off the lands in my 30/06. It shoots 1.5" at 200 out of a gun vise. Also when loading for the 300 Weatherby I can not get anywhere near the lands because of freebore in the Weatherby when loading and shooting 190gr Burger VLD. I just load em as long as possible and have em still fit in the magazine box. I am getting 3 inch groups at 400 with the Weatherby. Now one thing I have found when I reload my bullets in any caliber rifle the rounds must be the same exact length as the last batch of reloads. If they are not the same OAL all accuracy bets are off and or I must re-zero my rifle as the poi changes with cartridge OAL. Hope this helps.

    Cheers & Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester
     
  10. kiwi3006

    kiwi3006 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to here you can'tthe bergers to shoot consistently. I got lucky with mine. I am using the same 168 gr berger but in a 7mm mag. I don't have all the comparitors to measure length etc so I just seated a proj in an empty case and kept pushing it further into the case until the rifling just left a small mark on the proj when chambered.
    I loaded up the powder until I got the velocity I wanted 3080 fps and groups consistently went 0.5 -0.7 MOA at 100 yds.
    I use to use the 162 a-max but switched to bergers when I couldn't get the a-max. From results on game there is no difference in results. If the a-max are shooting well for you then stick with them, the berger won't give any better results. I have had complete pass throughs on deer size game out 630 yds when hit in the chest (only ribs hit, not the shoulder blade) with the a-max.

    Stu
     
  11. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I had to load my groups in smaller increments than Berger suggested and I found a small but great sweet spot. I loaded in .010 increments and found that .010 was good and .020 was also good so I re loaded those two and a .015 and the .015 turned a very good group and it has been GTG ever since. Sometime they just don't work also :rolleyes:
     
  12. ZSteinle

    ZSteinle Well-Known Member

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    Kept at it with the 168's in my 7 WSM found that 0.006 into the lands is the number! 60 gr. of h4350 pushes them at around 3030FPS. Here is the results. Just down and right from the penny there is 5 shots with the one flyer just up and to the right.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. .25MOA

    .25MOA Well-Known Member

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    Re: Reloading for VLD bullets Rem700SENDERO300WinMag.

    Okay after doing my first lot of reloads i finally got to test them out today.........Loading at 0.020 off lands with 75gn, 76gn, 77.5gn and 79gns.....I loaded both Berger 190gr and also SMK 190gr, just to see what was best for the 300WinMag. With the help and Expertise of JAWZ, along with his Chrono I shot the fist of each load, the Bergers @ 75gn of AR2217 (H-1000) managed 0.24 MOA, the 76gn loads managed 0.5 MOA, and the others went downhill from there.
    With the SMK, 75gns of H-1000 managed 0.5MOA and the rest were nothing to talk about......Not sure if i'll change the seating depth ???
    Thanx for all the info Guys and help, before i started to reload i had absolutely No idea, but with a bit of help from you Fellas i did it.
    Next LR rifle is definately an EDGE ...... I saw JAWZ one in action today and i will say that i'm Glad i'm Not a deer !! gun)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011
  14. captain cox

    captain cox Member

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    i weigh the bullets before i load them and load the ones that wiegh the same with the same load and so on. this helps.