Reduced loads in 308 for youth

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Rustystud, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. Rustystud

    Rustystud Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    431
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2007
    I bought some Nosler 125 Balistic tips and want to load some reduced recoil loads in a 308 Winchester. I have looked at 35-38 grains of H4895 (2500-2600fps). But was looking for something even lighter in the 2200 fps range. They will be fired in a bolt gun so ejection is not and issue. Reduced loads come with ignition issues and having to use case fillers.

    Got any suggestions

    Nat Lambeth
     
  2. Loner

    Loner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    599
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    5744

    Should get you down to 1800 or so if you desire. Made for what you are doing, not
    a patch product.
     

  3. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

    Messages:
    4,798
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    call nosler or sierra and talk to the tech reps. they have tested reduced loads that will go down to where you want and are proven to not be dangerous.

    They can tell what powders, what MV range and what bullets to use safely.

    BH
     
  4. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,256
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Nat,

    Hasn't been mentioned yet, but I'd also consider going to 30-30 bullets for this combination, as they're more likely to give decent expansion at the velocities you're wanting to load. After all, you're essentially duplicating 30-30 performance.

    Dittos on the recommendation for SR 4759 or 5744. They're going o be the optimum choices for such loads, without the hassle of using fillers or other potential troublemakers in the mix.

    Kevin Thomas
    Lapua USA
     
  5. BobbyL

    BobbyL Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    188
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Sorry wasnt thinking....
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  6. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

    Messages:
    4,798
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    Unfortunately that is the most dangerous way to do this!

    The practice of slow powders in reduced loads is specifically not recommended because it has been known to blow up guns and people. It is called the Secondary Explosion Effect (SEE).

    If you look at any reloading manual, they always give a must minimum load for each powder. The SEE is the reason why.

    Just picking a powder an reducing it, particularily a slow powder is a recipe for disaster.

    That is also why I recommended you talk to the experts who have worked out safe reduced loads and will give you accurate and safe information. I have done this numerous times for different caliblers and would only use a load that comes from guys who know what works and not.

    Read the articles and discussions below.

    Light Loads can Explode Page


    http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html

    BH
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  7. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,256
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Dittos with Bounty Hunter here, he's absolutely correct! DO NOT try reducing slow burning powders like the ones listed! Reduced loads call for lighter charges of substantially FASTER burning powders than those normally used in standard load for a given chambering.

    With the 125 grain bullet you mentioned, try 25.0-29.0 grains of IMR4198 for a reduced load. Velocities should go from about 1970 fps at the start to a max of about 2185 fps at the top load. This is from page #454 of the current (14th Edition) Speer manual. Lyman isalso pretty good about listing reduced loads, but steer clear of slow powders.

    KevinThomas
    Lapua USA
     
  8. BobbyL

    BobbyL Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    188
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Yes i see your points. I do know i have ran retumbo in a 308 before with heavy bullets but never thought about the light bullet. I understand how that can happen just didnt occur to me. My apologies....

    So i guess i would now suggest trail boss. I know it works great doing subs pushing 160-180 grain bullets. Would it work in this case using the 125's? maybe a load of around 14 to 16 grains?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  9. Shane G.

    Shane G. Active Member

    Messages:
    31
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

    That Link has info on working up reduced loads with Trail Boss and some data for 22-250 on up.

    I have used it with 150,168,175 bullets in .308, with 10grains and a 175 it was chrono'd at an average of 1050 out of a 26" barrel,still had room to add more if you want to go above subsonic.

    The 175's had very little recoil at all.
     
  10. davkrat

    davkrat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    655
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Old thread but I am heading out with my son and looked up the H4895 loads I used in the past. Here is some good data for reduced loads. I use a 110 VMax with the 60% load of H4895 and it gets me around 1600 fps with hardly any recoil.

    https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895 Reduced Rifle Loads.pdf

    Going to go load 5 of them and let him blow up some milk jugs. Also tried a few with the 155 Custom Competitions to see how they do.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2014
  11. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,306
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004


    Had you thought about a muzzle Brake ?

    They will reduce the recoil from 30% to 60% without experimental loadings that could be un-safe.

    I realize they are not for everyone, but they can reduce recoil much more than light bullets and do not effect the performance (Hunting or target shooting).

    J E CUSTOM
     
  12. Edd

    Edd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,388
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    If you apply the Hodgdon 60% rule, you can go as low as 27.6 gr of H4895.

    Just noticed the date. You've probably found the solution by now.
     
  13. davkrat

    davkrat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    655
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    My soon to be 10 year-old son shot the 110 grain reduced loads today and came away unscathed. I fired one of the 155 grain H4895 loads but it seemed like there was a delayed detonation and the case seemed smoked. Sort of like a distinct click....bang. I pulled the rest of them seems the 60% load was too light with them.
     
  14. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,306
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004

    You did the right thing. Squibb loads can be very dangerous.

    Less powder is not the answer to slower loads that recoil less, The problem is extra space in the case.

    Powder has its own fuel and oxygen. The oxygen in the space that is not filled by powder increases
    the burn rate and also the powder that does not completely cover the primer flame, changes the flame front and can cause the primer to start more powder than normal because the surface may run the length of the case. this drastically changes the burn rate. I limit my loads to no less than 90% case density and prefer 95 to 100% even when fire forming.

    This is the reason that the loading manuals warn not to load less than the minimum load listed.

    Glad everything worked out and nothing bad happened.

    J E CUSTOM