Realistic Accuracy from OTC guns?

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Sapphire, Mar 11, 2011.

  1. Sapphire

    Sapphire Well-Known Member

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    What is a realistic "tight" group from an over the counter gun, non custom gun, AFTER a lot of reloading and load work up?

    With some time building loads could a stock Abolt or Stock M700 shoot 3/4 inch?

    Just curious, share your experience...
     
  2. Sapphire

    Sapphire Well-Known Member

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    And I'm not talking about that ONE gun that came out perfect and shoots 1 hole groups at 100 yards... I am talking out of 100 Rem 700 BDL's... what kind of an avg group might you get?

    I think spring has finally made it to Montana.... I've been ready for it....:D
     

  3. brentc

    brentc Well-Known Member

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    3/4" absolutely yes! Factory rifles have come a long way and the market is extremely competitive to produce quality. I have 3/4" or better loads for each of my factory guns. I own 3 Abolts (243 Win, 300 WSM, 270 Win), a Savage VLP (fast twist 22-250), a M77 375 Ruger, and a Win 70 (300 WSM).

    I have a load for the Win 70 that puts 3 shots into a .25" hole with 200 grain Accubonds at 100 yards. And I have since verified the accuracy several times at different ranges. So yes, if you put the time into getting to know your rifle, you can have a great shooter.

    The Savage is crazy "one hole" accurate with 70 grain Bergers. The 300 WSM Abolt has printed several .30-.50" groups, and the .243 is right in there too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  4. SBruce

    SBruce Well-Known Member

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    I've not owned 100 different remington 700's but I've had a few.
    Also had a couple factory rugers, and all would shoot 3/4 moa or better with developed selected handloads.

    Getting 3/4 moa with factory ammo is a matter of luck with certain factory guns IMO. That has been my experience. In fact, I don't recall any factory ammo in any factory gun that would consistently shoot 3/4 moa.

    All factory bolt action rifles I've had were capable of sub 3/4 moa (some sub 1/2 moa), but they've all taken quite a bit of load development to shoot this sub 3/4 and sub 1/2 minute consistantly. The ones that shot sub 1/2 minute needed bedding, floating and trigger work to shoot that good. This is also based on shooting from a benchrest with high power optics on days with good conditions........I don't claim to be able to shoot 1/2 moa under all conditions.

    Heck, I've got a Marlin lever action 45-70 that shoots the Hornady factory ammo into 1 moa out to 200 yds (farthes I've shot it so far). I've only shot 5 - 3 shot groups with it, but all 5 groups were moa.

    I normally test heavy barrel or varmint guns with 5 shot groups, and at 200 or further. Lots of 300 and 400 testing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2011
  5. roninflag

    roninflag Well-Known Member

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    do you live by montanarifleman? i have several 700's tha shoot real good. my 7mmmag adl shot a .112 at 100 . went back out couple weeks later ; same load at 200 was 1.56. all will shoot less than inch. my 700 mtn 30-06 weighs 6 pounds and kicks a lot ; shoots .4-.6 at 100 and 3-4 inches at 200. my heavy barrel .222 shoots everything i have tried around .4 or .5.
    my two 6.5-284 with kriegers shoot everything good; some real good. roninflag
     
  6. silvertip-co

    silvertip-co Well-Known Member

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    My otc all factory model 70 with factory 26" will shoot <1moa with HSM factory ammo if my Army friend shoots it off the bench. I can't do it tho. I do however shoot 4 inch groups at 425 yrds. I dont put a lot of stock in groups tho. Hunting is about one cold bore shot, or perhaps two, thats all. The group stuff is for paper punchers and techys.
     
  7. SBruce

    SBruce Well-Known Member

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    I find myself having to disagree, just a little though.

    How many times have you found yourself in a situation where you could fill two or three tags at one spot, in one setting, with 2 or 3 shots? It's happend for me multiple times. How many times have you called in 4 or 5 coyotes at once and manage to get shots at all of them before they get out of range? That too has happened for me a few times.

    Although I hate it when it happens, and it's very seldom, but I've made bad shots and had to follow up with another one or two really quick like. My first shot is generally the best, because my nerves are steadier. The last thing I want is for the first shot to go somewhere that the rest don't also go. Likewise, I don't want the 3rd or 4th shot going somewhere else either.

    Not to mention prarie dogs, chucks and other varmints. How often do we shoot a full magazine at them and still have targets in front of us? ALOT!:)
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2011
  8. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    Almost as important as load workup is that a lot of factory rifles can benefit from one or two tweaks. Trigger adjustment and bedding come to mind.

    I have a couple that I can count on for <.5"@100yds and a few more that are <1"@100yds.

    The rest are collectibles or semi-custom neither of which would count.

    Now, if you followed 100 Rem 700's out the door of Cabela's to their new homes and out to the range, you'd end up with crap. The average target I see at the range looks like buckshot. What's up with that?

    -- richard
     
  9. BillR

    BillR Well-Known Member

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    Hunting is about one cold bore shot, or perhaps two, thats all. The group stuff is for paper punchers and techys.

    But for LONG RANGE hunting that is what it takes to do it.
     
  10. Capt Academy

    Capt Academy Well-Known Member

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    I have had great luck with the Rem 700 Police series and the Rem Senderos. These rifles have all shot better than 1 MOA out of the box. With a little work into to them, some shoot as good as 1/2 MOA now.
     
  11. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    My factory Savage shot a .233" group with hand loads prone. I also had the fortune to come across some RWS .308 comp loads that shot .5MOA. The important thing to look for when buying an OTC rifle, is looking for any type of factory accuracy improvement. What I mean by this is pillar bedding, or aluminum block bedding, and adjustable triggers. They are all very capable of shooting rather well.

    Tank
     
  12. brentc

    brentc Well-Known Member

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    Lol! This is true. I think it's a mixture of people having the following issues:

    1) They aren't familiar with shooting, or they don't have the correct range equipment. (bipods, sandbags, rests) I see a lot of dudes show up at the range with a new rifle, a mid grade BSA scope, trying to sight in their rifle while rested on their elbows with the cheapest box of factory ammo they can find. After all, it's Remington, it's guaranteed to shoot, right?

    2) Factory guns really do need some tweaks. The first things I did with all of my factory guns was a trigger job, checked the bedding, thorough cleaning, greased the bolt and lugs and torqued the action screws. And then I worked loads fo each rifle. It takes patience and time., but it can be done.
     
  13. jrw1976

    jrw1976 Well-Known Member

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    Group size does matter in this game of long range. To be successful at this long range endeavor it takes shooting and lots of it to build the confidence it takes to make clean kills past point blank range. So if we need to do all this practice why not try and be the best we can be. And the best for me includes trying to make the smallest most accurate pin point groups at all ranges in all conditions that my equipment and I can preform. But maybe that is just me, who knows.

    Jason
     
  14. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    Jason,

    You're exactly right. You can't make a predictable cold bore shot if you don't have repeatability. If a guy has the patience and just wants to fire a single shot each day, then so be it. He's still trying to establish a group or pattern of repeatbility.

    If anyone still thinks groups aren't important for LRH, then I'd love to learn more about their load workup procedure and practice regimine.

    -- richard