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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Long Range Scopes and Other Optics
Rangefinder: which leica?
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<blockquote data-quote="catorres1" data-source="post: 1607493" data-attributes="member: 80699"><p>Doug,</p><p></p><p>I actually have both the 2700 and the 2800, so maybe can comment on these as well if that helps. I actually moved to the 2700 when I experienced less than satisfactory ballistic solutions from my 1600b. Being able to input your curve and tweak as necessary made a world of difference! I run the numbers in the field against my Kestrel, which I have trued out past the 1k limit in the Leica....and if you exclude coriolis and aerodynamic jump from the Kestrel (which the Leica does not consider), I can get my drops to match to .1 MOA or better. Here is the caveat though, you are probably going to have to tweak the BC and velocity a bit to get it that close...depends on your bullet (Secant boat-tails are farther off then more standard profile bullets in my experience). But it can be done and I trust that system. The 2800 is the same engine, side by side with the 2700, they are identical. The 2800 adds the ability to source your solution from the Kestrel via bluetooth if you want to shoot longer than 1k or want these higher forces considered, but then as you mention, you have to trust in that bluetooth working etc., when you want to use the Kestrel.</p><p></p><p>When it comes to 'a complete solution' in an RF, the Sig 2400 ABS is pretty awesome, full AB onboard, so you get the same solver as you would on a Kestrel. There are some caveats to go along with that along the lines of temp etc....and of course divergence etc. But those have been available fairly cheaply lately (800 and some change) when put on flash sale.</p><p></p><p>BTW, to illustrate a point about these sovlers, spent the day yesterday testing Sig's BDX setup with my trainer on his range. Used the 3kBDX with a bdx scope, also had various other RF's there and of course my Kestrel. I'll detail more in review in the next weeks, but internally, the BDX rf's run AB ultralite, which is similar to what the Leicas run in that no coriolis etc, but it accepts G7's....solution limited to 800 yards. What we found is that when we compared the solution from ultralite vs the Kestrel running AB using a custom drag curve....the ultralite was pretty consistently off by .5 MOA from about 400 to 700 (next target was 1125, so could not get a solution on that). Checked it against the Kestrel, and the Kestrel called for .5 less elevation. We ended up tweaking the BC on the 3k profile and got it to match to less than .2 MOA with the Kestrel...could probably get a little closer, but good enough for the moment. Shot the plates again from 400-700 with the adjusted profile using the calls from ultralite, perfect hits. All that is to say, full AB using those custom curves is really superior to what Leica has, but even also in our experience, what ABU gives. ABU seems to be closer out of the box, but it still needs a little help. Gotta say, full AB has been for all of our guns...amazingly accurate when using the CDM's.</p><p></p><p>One other note about Leica...have spent time talking with the guys in charge there, one conversation was specifically around CS, as their CS rep was abysmal...and by rights from what I hear...they probably earned it. But in the last year or so, they started hammering at that. They have now doubled their CS staff IIRC, and their focus is on that problem. In the last year or so, everything I have heard suggests they have turned it around. I know everyone I have connected them with has been taken care of quickly and more then fairly.</p><p></p><p>There are lots of good RF choices out there, but only a few really excellent ones in my opinion. Leica is not the only excellent one, obviously, but is definitely one of the leaders, so if you like what you had but for their ballistics, I would recommend looking at the 2700b and see what you think. As a non-bluetooth enabled RF that still supplies ballistics, it is probably my favorite. While I do like the 2400ABS as well, unless you find one on sale, it's in a different price class. It has it's ups over the 2700 but also it's downs, but it is a very complete solution.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="catorres1, post: 1607493, member: 80699"] Doug, I actually have both the 2700 and the 2800, so maybe can comment on these as well if that helps. I actually moved to the 2700 when I experienced less than satisfactory ballistic solutions from my 1600b. Being able to input your curve and tweak as necessary made a world of difference! I run the numbers in the field against my Kestrel, which I have trued out past the 1k limit in the Leica....and if you exclude coriolis and aerodynamic jump from the Kestrel (which the Leica does not consider), I can get my drops to match to .1 MOA or better. Here is the caveat though, you are probably going to have to tweak the BC and velocity a bit to get it that close...depends on your bullet (Secant boat-tails are farther off then more standard profile bullets in my experience). But it can be done and I trust that system. The 2800 is the same engine, side by side with the 2700, they are identical. The 2800 adds the ability to source your solution from the Kestrel via bluetooth if you want to shoot longer than 1k or want these higher forces considered, but then as you mention, you have to trust in that bluetooth working etc., when you want to use the Kestrel. When it comes to 'a complete solution' in an RF, the Sig 2400 ABS is pretty awesome, full AB onboard, so you get the same solver as you would on a Kestrel. There are some caveats to go along with that along the lines of temp etc....and of course divergence etc. But those have been available fairly cheaply lately (800 and some change) when put on flash sale. BTW, to illustrate a point about these sovlers, spent the day yesterday testing Sig's BDX setup with my trainer on his range. Used the 3kBDX with a bdx scope, also had various other RF's there and of course my Kestrel. I'll detail more in review in the next weeks, but internally, the BDX rf's run AB ultralite, which is similar to what the Leicas run in that no coriolis etc, but it accepts G7's....solution limited to 800 yards. What we found is that when we compared the solution from ultralite vs the Kestrel running AB using a custom drag curve....the ultralite was pretty consistently off by .5 MOA from about 400 to 700 (next target was 1125, so could not get a solution on that). Checked it against the Kestrel, and the Kestrel called for .5 less elevation. We ended up tweaking the BC on the 3k profile and got it to match to less than .2 MOA with the Kestrel...could probably get a little closer, but good enough for the moment. Shot the plates again from 400-700 with the adjusted profile using the calls from ultralite, perfect hits. All that is to say, full AB using those custom curves is really superior to what Leica has, but even also in our experience, what ABU gives. ABU seems to be closer out of the box, but it still needs a little help. Gotta say, full AB has been for all of our guns...amazingly accurate when using the CDM's. One other note about Leica...have spent time talking with the guys in charge there, one conversation was specifically around CS, as their CS rep was abysmal...and by rights from what I hear...they probably earned it. But in the last year or so, they started hammering at that. They have now doubled their CS staff IIRC, and their focus is on that problem. In the last year or so, everything I have heard suggests they have turned it around. I know everyone I have connected them with has been taken care of quickly and more then fairly. There are lots of good RF choices out there, but only a few really excellent ones in my opinion. Leica is not the only excellent one, obviously, but is definitely one of the leaders, so if you like what you had but for their ballistics, I would recommend looking at the 2700b and see what you think. As a non-bluetooth enabled RF that still supplies ballistics, it is probably my favorite. While I do like the 2400ABS as well, unless you find one on sale, it's in a different price class. It has it's ups over the 2700 but also it's downs, but it is a very complete solution. [/QUOTE]
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