Question for you gunsmiths , new bolt or modify old one

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by James Jones, Apr 30, 2005.

  1. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    I'm in the process of getting all my goodies together for a new rifle build and wanted your imput on what to do with the bolt as I'll probably have one of you guys do the work , hopefully
    The action is a Rem 700 short action with the small .378" bolt face I want to build a 308 so the bolt is gonna have to be opened (cost factor #1) I also want the gun to be as accurate as possible so having the bolt or action sleeved is probably gonna be done (cost factor #2). I'm wondering if I'd be better off just ordering an oversized bolt from PTG , their cost is $125. Would it be any more accurate or easier to work with either way?
    Also what is everbodies opponion on haveing the Sako style extractor instaled , I'd heard of them blowing off with hot loads , is this from not being properly put together ?

    Thanks in advance for everbodies imput
     
  2. 3sixbits

    3sixbits Well-Known Member

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    Also what is everbodies opponion on haveing the Sako style extractor instaled , I'd heard of them blowing off with hot loads , is this from not being properly put together ?

    Thanks in advance for everbodies imput

    [/ QUOTE ] No, even on SAKO rifles there is a cure for this problem. It just takes a modifcation from what SAKO does. Any of the great gun smiths on this sight can help. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     

  3. 308 nate

    308 nate Well-Known Member

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    JD,
    My recommendation would be to definately go with PTG bolt.
    there would be no more work involved and less dollars..you could sell your bolt to cover 2/3 the price of the PTG bolt and I feel you would be happier in the long run.
    FWIW,
    308nate
     
  4. kregg

    kregg Member

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    you could buy a bolt from dave kiff and get the bolt face that you want, also you can have him make your bolt o.d 0.70470 that way you dont need to have your bolt sleeved just have the action opened up to 0.705 that would save you $150.00 and you have your old bolt you could sell. www.parrysgunsmithing.com
     
  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    JDJones,

    In my opinion, having the receiver accurized properly is more important then the bolt you use. That said, a properly fitted bolt or sleeved bolt will offer advantages over the factory bolt fit. Mainly in bolt body vibration and trigger pull consistancy.

    A double sleeved bolt will run $150, about the same as the replacement bolt so its a wash really either way in my opinion. Pick a way and go for it, you will get the same results either way for basically the same money.

    I have used Sako extractors for a long time and have yet to see or hear about one of my extractors coming out of the bolt. In fact I find this hard to believe unless there is a primer failure or case head seperation. Either of which would mean excessive pressure or using brass that is poor quality which is the shooters responsibility to use quality brass.

    That said, I have switched over to an M-16 style pinned in extractor simply because they have a much larger gripping area then the Sakos and in my opinion work and look better as far as extracting goes.

    Little harder to machine the bolt but a better system in my opinion.

    FOr a rifle that simply can not malfunction, these are the only way to go in my opinion.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  6. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    I agree on the pinned M16 extractor. Its the better of the two(sako-M16) but both are better than the standard remmy unit.
    I would buy a replacement bolt and sell the original on ebay, you'll definately make most of the money back.
    Pete
     
  7. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    I'd do just as Kregg suggested, but you will have to send it to someone with the .705 reamer/mandrel for the reaming.

    Kregg, Kirby... I have a question for you guys I'll post in the GD forum about the bolt bore reaming.
     
  8. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    Brent,
    The problem with that is most Remmy's are bigger than .705 and that reamer won't touch a thing.
     
  9. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Chris,

    I replied to this over on the thread I started about bolt bore reaming.

    I have yet to be able to fit a .705 bushing through either the front or rear receiver ring on an action, yet, but I agree if it did fit through then one would need a larger reamer.
     
  10. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Brent and Chris,

    I to have jet to see a 705 reamer pass through a Rem 700 receiver but I fully realize Chris has reamed more receivers then I have so I will submit to his experience on this one.

    Until I get one that is larger then 705 I will not worry about it!!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  11. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    OK guys how bout this one what if you get a bolt with an OD of .710 , would that help anything at all one fella once told be it would make for a stonger bolt but the way i see it is that it'll only make your lugs smaller and that is what take all the stress right so in effect the larger bolt would be weaker?
    Just a thought cause I have noticed that Wby's have massive bolts but they have those pesky nine little lugs
     
  12. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    Your right about the Weatherby...
    Alot of customs use a fat bolt design especially with three lugs, which I feel is about the best design, but that is just opinion.

    The bolt itself is really just a way to hold the firing pin, with the lugs taking all of the stress as you mentioned. So bolt diameter really doesn't matter, in theory. Bolt fit/size is a factor in action smoothness and how tight-consistent the gun locks into battery each time.

    Here's a thought, if I were to do it- I would have it normal fit up front to provide tolerance for dirt, etc from being in the field but have the back of the bolt tapered or sleeved to lock up tight just as the bolt hit the camming engagements and locked up.....that way it would be supported up front, from dead nut's on headspace and contact on the lugs and then supported in back, especially to prevent upward deflection caused by Remington's angled cocking piece to sear engagement.
     
  13. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Well this gun is going to see duty as a police weapon as well as my personal paper puncher so reliability is a major factor.
    How much differance in accuracy does having the bolt sleeved make? say you have a gun that'll shoot into the 1/2" mark consistantly what would having the bolt sleeved do for it accuracy wise?
    This isin't gonna be a long range rig , I may take it out to 500yds on paper but no way in hell is it ever gonna be used on people flesh over 200yds probably not over 100yds hopefully never for that matter!!
     
  14. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    JDJones,

    Bolt sleeving is like deburring the flashhole on your match ammo. It is just one aspect of a large collection of things that will make up a fine shooting rifle or ammo.

    In and of itself you will see very little difference with bolt sleeving. When used on a fully and properly accurized receiver, again you will see no dramatic improvement but it will increase your consistancy from shot to shot. If you will see the difference is very difficult to say.

    If you have a sporter rifle used for big game hunting you will probably not see any advantage with a sleeved bolt because of the way the rifle is used and the variables in how the rifle is shot and built and its shootability.

    In a heavy rifle you may see a difference but again, remember this is just another step in trying to get a factory action to perform like a custom BR action.

    To be honest, I have built many non sleeved Rem 700 bolt guns that held groups in the .1's and .2"s. My sleeved bolt rifles are in this same area of consistancy.

    On the Wby issue. If you measure a Wby MkV bolt nose diameter is will be 0.715" to 0.720" on average in diameter. The Rem 700 bolt nose will generally be 0.698" to 0.702" in diameter, there just is not that much differenance even though the Wby bolt body is much larger in diameter this has no effect on bolt strength.

    Also, a preperly accurized Rem 700 with its 2 large bolt lugs has nearly identically the same baring and shear surface as the Wby bolt with its 9 locking lugs, especially when you realize that 3 of those nine lugs are dramatically smaller then the other 6 because of the extractor position.

    I would not get a .710" bolt if it were my personally. First off, the smith would have to get a reaming mandrel for that very large bolt diameter and I would bet there are not many out there that have one. This will generally mean that you will pay for alot of the reamer charge.

    There is no real benefit going to this large bolt diameter anyway. Measure your receiver bolt way and see what diameter it is. I would bet it is not over .705".

    If it is then worry about the exotic bolt sizes but until them save your money.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)