Question for Extreme LR 338 hunters

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by 7ultra, Sep 21, 2004.

  1. 7ultra

    7ultra Well-Known Member

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    Right now I am thinking about putting together a 338 whisper, which, as we all know puts out around 1050 fps at the muzzle. Now I figure that translates to a pretty far shot using a big boomer, possibly 1600-2000 meters. First off what kind of bullets do you guys use for game at that distance and how do they work? Any experience with the 300 grain Match Kings?
    PS. Could some one direct me or tell me the b.c. for the 250 grain Matchking and 300 Matchking. Thanks a bunch
     
  2. Richard338

    Richard338 Well-Known Member

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    The 300SMK is listed at .750 BC for 1800 fps and less. The 250SMK is listed at only .484 BC at 1400 fps or less.
    Either way, run some trajectories, your drops for 2000m with 1050fps muzzle velocity would be absurd! You plan to take game at that distance with a very slow moving bullet??
    Time of flight?? Wind deflection?
     

  3. 7ultra

    7ultra Well-Known Member

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    No, No,
    Sorry for the misunderstanding. I fully understand that hunting with the Whisper would be almost impossible at 2000 m. I intend to only hunt 100-200 meters with this one. What I was asking was how 338 bullets perform at these distances, because the velocities at these ranges would approximate what the whisper can do within 100-200 yards.
     
  4. Guest

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    forgive me for saying this but.. what would be the point of having a 338 caliber rifle with velocities of a .22 lr???

    seems like a waist of time and money... if you want to go the rout of a short 338 go to the 338WSM
     
  5. 7ultra

    7ultra Well-Known Member

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    Fair question, and I'll answer it as well as possible.
    1) I know there are shorter 338 mags, but I don't want one. I already have a 338 Winchester, there would be no point in buying another.(right now)
    2) I want something a little different. So sue me. I think it would be fun to own a 338 that would push a 300 grain bullet at lowly 22lr velocities [​IMG]
    3)I've got big boomers, now I want something smaller. In a 9-10 pound gun, the 338 Whisper will only generate 5 ft/lbs of recoil.
    4) Imagine it, 17 inches of barrel, nice and thick.
    5) Given my hunting restrictions, about 300 yards, isn't any gun over a 243 a "waste" of money. Not to sound uncivil, but there is a difference between a better cartridge choice and a waste of money. I'm asking for bullet performance, not cartridge preferences. If I had asked for it, then your post would have helped me. But for right now, I am researching the 338 whisper. Thank you

    [ 09-22-2004: Message edited by: 7ultra ]
     
  6. Guest

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    Well you would definitly have something different...
    not trying to piss on your cornflakes... I guess I just can't see the justification...
    to each his own...
    but those muzzle loaders these days are pretty accurate too...
     
  7. Richard338

    Richard338 Well-Known Member

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    7ultra,
    I looked at some trajectories for 100-300 yards. With muzzle velocity of 1050 fps, using the 300SMK, you retain nearly 1000fps at 200 yards. The energy is about 775 ft.lbs. I picture it like a pistol cartridge. You wouldn't want to get hit with a .45ACP 230grain ball going 900fps. So I'm sure that the 300SMK at 1000fps would be quite powerful. The drops are quite a few MOA though. A compact, subsonic, easily silenced rifle? Those deer? won't know what hit them.
     
  8. TOM H

    TOM H Well-Known Member

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    7ultra, I just don't think at the velocity you are talking about you will get the bullet expansion and energy to take deer. I think what Ric was saying which I will as responible hunter we should not use bullets that cannot reliably kill a game animal.
     
  9. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    7ultra, there are no jacketed bullets that will work on game at those velocities. Same effect as shooting FMJ's at them. Good or bad is up to you.

    You can consider cast with a FN or Keith type profile or better yet go with a large bore (40 or 45cal).

    Utimately, this combo (338 Whisper) would be lethal but certainly not effective in my books.

    Jerry
     
  10. 7ultra

    7ultra Well-Known Member

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    Thank you guys for the response,
    I'm sorry if I sounded pissy, just trying to re route this thread. The 300 grain match king was just an example. The 338 whisper was designed to be an easily suppressible round, while having the ability to go a little bit faster. The reason I asked the question about bullet performance, is because I know there are members on this board who hunt at these ranges, and with success. The rifle itself will most likely easily attain 1/2MOA or less at 100 yards, so know I just need to know about bullet selection. Thanks
     
  11. DANTEC

    DANTEC Well-Known Member

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    heavy bullet in 338 cal are design to expand at high velovity

    338 Wisper or any small case doesn t deliver enought velocity to get a proper expansion so you get a close FMJ effect

    that the opposite in 35 cal where bullets are design for low velocity ( 35 REm and 358 win ) so when you push them fast you get quick / too fast expansion ( 358 STA or same class of magnum )

    good shooting

    DAN TEC
     
  12. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    7Ultra,

    I agree with the on game performance problems associated with using the 300 gr Mk at these low velocities. The bullet simply would not expand at all, not even at near muzzle velocity you are talking about.

    I am not saying your idea is a bad one, in fact, I think it could be a very useful hunting tool and extremely accurate to boot.

    Just swtich to a 180 gr Ballistic Tip for game hunting. You could get into the 2600 fps level if you wanted pretty easily or load down to 2400-2500 fps with no more recoil then the much slower 300 gr MK and over 200 yards the ligher 180 gr BT will shoot much flatter adn expand very reliably on game.

    The 300 Whisper, your ideas little brother, has been used a great deal as a big game round, espeically out of handguns which is one of my main passions.

    In the 300, the guys I know switch from the big 220 and 240 gr Mk that they use for target shooting and use a 125 or 150 gr Ballistic Tip for deer. Recoil is the same, trajectory over moderate hunting ranges is actually flatter with the light bullets and they expand reliably down to 1500 fps or so in both the 308 and 338 familys of B. Tips.

    Just an idea, would add better on game performance to your interesting idea and the B. Tips in 338 are flat out match accurate in my XP-100 15" handgun chambeed for the 338 WSM.

    I have taken +300 lb mule deer bucks at 320 yards with the 180 gr ballistic Tip driven to 2800 fps at the muzzle. this is quite a bit over what you would get but bullet performance at that range was perfect with full expansion and penetration.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  13. 7ultra

    7ultra Well-Known Member

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    Fifty, once again you took the post right off of my computer screen. My intitial logic with even considering the 300gr Mk for hunting was that I would be able to take an accurate round on paper and use it in the field. Of course I had concers over bullet performance, hence the post.

    Thinking about it more, for hunting situations, the lighter bullets would definately be the ticket. You think I would be able to get that kind of velocity with the 180's. If thats the case,it pretty much locks the Whisper as my cartridge.

    Now, in your opinion, what should I do for a barrel. The twist would be 1-10(right?). For barrel contour, I want something pretty thick, like maybe lilja's heavy varmint contour(straight taper). Now what about length. I said 17", mainly because legal length is 16 and 1/2 and this cartridge wasn't meant for too long of a tube. Any advice or experience would be great.

    [ 09-22-2004: Message edited by: 7ultra ]
     
  14. Guest

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