Question about the 338 lapua

[odoylerules]

Hey guys, I'm fairly new to the long range game so bare with me please.
I'm currently shooting a remmy 700 chambered in 300WM. It shoots 215 berger hybrids at about 2785fps out of a factory 24" tube. I found a great load that consistently gives me sub half MOA. It absolutely pounds out to about the 1400-1500 yards. After that things get inconsistent through my trans sonic zone. I was planning a custom build that would keep me super sonic out to a mile, and extend my current max range on game. Which is about 950 ish yards, when my bullet drops below 1800fps and full expansion can't be reliable. I was looking at a 7-300.
With the Berger 195's. I've had several people tell me I should just go all in and get a 338 lapua, like it's the ultimate long range rig. Running numbers through a basic ballistic calculator I came up with a few questions...shooting Berger 300's most guys are getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 2700-2800fps. That bullet slows to the 1800fps below 1100 yards, and goes trans sonic at about the same yardage as my current 300wm. The only advantage I see is the terminal ballistics-more impact energy. What am I missing? Why are guys saying this is what I need like it's the ultra long range answer to everything. Thanks for the help

 

[jimbires]

I have a 30" bbl on my 338 Lapua . I'm shooting 300 gr elite hunter bullets with RL33 powder . I'm getting 2930 FPS .

 

[sable tireur]

odoylerules,

Here are a couple of thoughts just for consideration and conversation. This same discussion is taking place on multiple forums with regard to longer range shooting and hunting with the newer, heavy for caliber, high BC hunting bullets and what I consider to be 'main stream' cartridges.

The primary consideration being given to the selection of these bullets is the high BC. Generically speaking, many shooters consider this to the most important feature of these bullets. But they are not thinking through the necessity of the increase in horsepower which is required to make the best use of both the BC by the ability to move the weight down range. This brings into play the concept of using a lighter bullet with a high BC but being pushed at a much higher velocity, achieving better results in the trajectory and with retained energy. We can run these numbers in the examples of the 6.5mm/155 gr., the 7mm/195 gr., the .30 cal./230 gr. (soon to be 245 gr.) and the .338/300 gr.

When we run some simple calculations, we discover, as you did, that the stunning performance of these heavier, high BC bullets is not quite so stunning. In fact, it can be seen as slightly mediocre. The reason for this is two-fold:

Not enough horsepower to achieve the higher velocity necessary to get to that level which will beat out the lighter, high BC bullets.

The unwillingness or inability to use those longer barrels which provide the length for the increased powder capacity to burn and to act on the bullets.

If you want to stay in the realm of high-performance without getting into much larger capacity cases and slightly unwieldy barrels, run the lighter, high BC bullets at higher velocities. But you need to be willing to accept the limits imposed by the performance. You might want to expect more but let the reality of the case/bullet combination tell you what to expect.

Regards.

 

[el matador]

I have a couple of thoughts on this. First, shooting at game beyond 1000 yards is not recommended for people that are "new to long-range". I realize we aren't supposed to discuss ethics here but I'm just pointing out that it takes most people a significant amount of time before they are proficient at hitting anything that far away under hunting conditions.

Regarding the 338 Lapua it really won't give you much better velocity at those ranges than your 300 Win. As you found out already. The advantage to the Lapua is that it shoots a bigger bullet with more energy and frontal area than a .30 or 7mm bullet. So even if there is no expansion at all you're still making a .338" hole in something. It may not sound like much but its 20% more frontal area than a .30 cal and 40% more than a 7mm.

If you really want to take game past 1000 I'd recommend you go bigger than the factory offerings that are out there. A 338 Lapua AI with 30" barrel will launch the 300 grain bullets over 3000 fps no problem. That gets you to almost 1400 yards before you go sub-1800 fps. The 338 Allen Mag is another step up from the Lapua AI and will extend your range even further. If you're shooting at smaller game like deer and antelope you could look at some of the hotter 7mm and .30 cal rounds such as 28 Nosler, 300 RUM, 30-378 Wby, 30-338 Lapua (AI), etc.

 

[rharfo]

I have a NIB REM 700 Pss 338 with ammo for sale. If you decide to buy.

 

[odoylerules]

I have a couple of thoughts on this. First, shooting at game beyond 1000 yards is not recommended for people that are "new to long-range". I realize we aren't supposed to discuss ethics here but I'm just pointing out that it takes most people a significant amount of time before they are proficient at hitting anything that far away under hunting conditions.

Regarding the 338 Lapua it really won't give you much better velocity at those ranges than your 300 Win. As you found out already. The advantage to the Lapua is that it shoots a bigger bullet with more energy and frontal area than a .30 or 7mm bullet. So even if there is no expansion at all you're still making a .338" hole in something. It may not sound like much but its 20% more frontal area than a .30 cal and 40% more than a 7mm.

If you really want to take game past 1000 I'd recommend you go bigger than the factory offerings that are out there. A 338 Lapua AI with 30" barrel will launch the 300 grain bullets over 3000 fps no problem. That gets you to almost 1400 yards before you go sub-1800 fps. The 338 Allen Mag is another step up from the Lapua AI and will extend your range even further. If you're shooting at smaller game like deer and antelope you could look at some of the hotter 7mm and .30 cal rounds such as 28 Nosler, 300 RUM, 30-378 Wby, 30-338 Lapua (AI), etc.

I totally had that coming. I've been archery hunting exclusively and competing at a very high level in archery for the last 10 years. I'm hoping to bring that same level of dedication to long range shooting. I used to get down right ****ed when guys would brag about taking 60-70 yard or beyond shots. I practiced with these people and knew they had no business taking what I considered such unethical shots on game. Animals and targets are two completely different things.
I am mostly wanting a round that will consistently take me to a mile, and be used as an elk rifle. My 300 is great for hunting but hasn't proven consistent at ranges past the trans sonic range, which for me is around 1500 yards. It pounds the hell outta steel up until that range.

 

[el matador]

Well that makes sense. I'm the same way - shooting at 1000+ is no big deal if its steel or some other target, but with live animals I have my limits.

I really like .338 caliber bullets for elk. .30s aren't bad either, but the 6.5-7mm rounds just don't put them down very fast. I've only taken a handful of elk so my experience is limited. Those who have taken a LOT of elk usually say the same thing though, so I feel like I'm on the right track here. With that in mind I'd be looking for a .30 or .338 that can push the heavy bullets to 3000+ fps. The 300 RUM will barely get you there. That might be a good option if you're on a budget. The 30-378 or 338-378 are good choices if you want to stick with factory cartridges. And of course you can build a .30 or .338 off the Lapua Improved case design.

I don't know if you've looked at the ELR sub-forum much. There are a lot of good threads in there about shooting beyond 1000 yards.

 

[Joefrazell]

Have you tried shooting the long range accubond in your 300? They have a 190 gr with a very high bc. Being 190 you should be able to push it close to 3000 fps and it is supposed to work as it should with less velocity. I believe 1400fps but not positive. I've thought about trying them in my r700 sendero

 

[hottuit]

Looking for reloading recommendations for my 338 Laupa Christensen MPR 27" Barrel. Don't plan to shoot ELK past 800yds.
Have read articles indicating the lighter bullets 225gr to 250 gr have quicker kill results versus the heaver bullets.
Looking at the new Hornady CX 225gr.

 

[HuntnID]

A lighter bullet may get there quicker but you'd have an uphill battle trying to convince me that anything will kill something quicker than a 300SMK with consistency.

 

[338 dude]

Hey guys, I'm fairly new to the long range game so bare with me please.
I'm currently shooting a remmy 700 chambered in 300WM. It shoots 215 berger hybrids at about 2785fps out of a factory 24" tube. I found a great load that consistently gives me sub half MOA. It absolutely pounds out to about the 1400-1500 yards. After that things get inconsistent through my trans sonic zone. I was planning a custom build that would keep me super sonic out to a mile, and extend my current max range on game. Which is about 950 ish yards, when my bullet drops below 1800fps and full expansion can't be reliable. I was looking at a 7-300.
With the Berger 195's. I've had several people tell me I should just go all in and get a 338 lapua, like it's the ultimate long range rig. Running numbers through a basic ballistic calculator I came up with a few questions...shooting Berger 300's most guys are getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 2700-2800fps. That bullet slows to the 1800fps below 1100 yards, and goes trans sonic at about the same yardage as my current 300wm. The only advantage I see is the terminal ballistics-more impact energy. What am I missing? Why are guys saying this is what I need like it's the ultra long range answer to everything. Thanks for the help

 

[338 dude]

Looking for reloading recommendations for my 338 Laupa Christensen MPR 27" Barrel. Don't plan to shoot ELK past 800yds.
Have read articles indicating the lighter bullets 225gr to 250 gr have quicker kill results versus the heaver bullets.
Looking at the new Hornady CX 225gr.

I haven't shot the Hornady but I have a great load with Barnes 225 TSXBT

 

[hottuit]

What is your load?

 

[hottuit]

A lighter bullet may get there quicker but you'd have an uphill battle trying to convince me that anything will kill something quicker than a 300SMK with consistency.

Excuse my ignorance but what is the 300 MSK.