Question about neck turning

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by bweber, Dec 17, 2006.

  1. bweber

    bweber Well-Known Member

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    I have a question about neck turning that you guys might have some insight into. A year or two ago I bought a Sinclair neck turner. Since then I've gone through and neck turned all the ammo I load except my 375HH. To be honest, I can't say with any certainty that I know whether it helps or not, but it seems like the thing to do.

    I've never paid much attention to how much I neck turn them. I mostly just turn new brass enough to make sure it is the same thickness all around, generally cutting as little as possible to achieve this. I then don't normally return them as I continue to load the shells as it seems like there's already little enough brass left on the neck to work with. I suppose that the brass I turn in one batch are all the same. But I don't measure carefully enough to know if the next batch is exactly the same.

    Am I doing any good by doing this, or should I be more scientific about it? Any comments about neck turning techniques would be much appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Ben
     
  2. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    or should I be more scientific about it?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It sounds like youre on the right track. A couple thing I would pay close attentions to is that you would want to turn all your brass to to be used in the same rifle to be the same thickness. You should have at least .010" of brass. .011 or .012 is better. There is nothing wrong with taking the minimum needed to make a clean neck all the way around. Also take care to turn it all the way to the shoulder so you dont come up with a donut inside the neck later. Whatever you dont turn will end up inside your neck. you MUST TAKE CARE not to bite into the shoulder too much either. Other wise you will weaken the brass there. Next I recomend using a Redding type S neck sizer for concistent neck tension. This is what will make up most of the accuracy benefit. Another benefit is that the bullet is more concentric in relation to the case and therfore the bore. Also when you get ready to turn the brass off of the tool, do it slow so that the surface of the neck is smooth and doesnt have any angled tooling marks.

    Hope that helps!
     

  3. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    To be honest, I can't say with any certainty that I know whether it helps or not, but it seems like the thing to do. Thanks,
    Ben

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ben... there was a time when all "accuracy" shooters thought that you HAD to neck turn cases for accuracy, and it became a standatd MUST DO.

    But a lot of things have changed, and now the direction is for "No turn" chambers, even for BR and 1000 yd cases.

    I have a 6mmBR that is a tight neck chamber (case neck walls are 0.085"), and I wish I had gotten a NO TURN chamber. When the throat is gone, I will have it punched out with a no turn reamer.

    If you take a batch of once fired, turned and un-turned cases, and load them the same... it is extremely rare that you will see any difference.

    Instead of taking someone elses word for it (including mine) try it yourself, so you can decide based on your rifle, and not a dozen theories.

    .
     
  4. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Ben... there was a time when all "accuracy" shooters thought that you HAD to neck turn cases for accuracy, and it became a standatd MUST DO.

    But a lot of things have changed, and now the direction is for "No turn" chambers

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There is alot of truth to this statment. Alot of good shooters dont waste their time turning necks. Personally I enjoy it. So I do it whether my rifle has a tight neck or not. It is just what works for me. I have also had very good results with SAMMI chambers and not neck turning. Neck turning is for if and when you feel it is neccessary to strain nats or split hairs.

    Also, I do it because I could never seem to get straight brass with an expander ball. Chalk it up to bad tools, bad technique (most likely bad tequnique) or whatever. The only way I was able to correct it was throw away the expander ball, turn my necks so the dies wouldnt compress them too much if at all, then run them through the neck die. This solved my problems. Please note, not all shooters/reloader have a problem getting straight brass with an expander ball.

    Like Catshooter stated, you should try all these things yourself and conclude whether or not it benefits you. What works for me might not work for you or anyone else and vice versa.
     
  5. old_heli_logger

    old_heli_logger Well-Known Member

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    Howdy everyone, this is my first post here; I've been reading for quite a while and I finally signed-up. There is a wealth of info here...anyway to the subject...it is my understanding that when you have a neck tension of more than .001" then the bullet becomes the sizer...is this not true?
     
  6. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    old_heli_logger,
    Welcome to Long Range Hunting.

    To answer your question, yes, it's true, but so it is at 0.001. I believe that 0.002 or 0.003 are more used especially for hunting. Will just hold the bullet better to keep it in place during recoil.
     
  7. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    In a sense, yes, however, when you feed straight brass in a bullet seater with a bullet, squeezing a few thousandths of an inch out, it doesnt have the same effect as an expander ball in a full length die that forces the necks crooked because youre not forcing the necks really tight and then expanding (under force)what would be .010"+ of neck tension out of the brass with the expander ball.
     
  8. Ballistic64

    Ballistic64 Well-Known Member

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    Catshooter is probably right about the views on a no turn chamber,especially with high quality components to start with.There probably arent too many shooters that could make the claim that thier gun shoots better based on the procedure of neck turning alone.I guess I think somewhat along the same lines as meichele.If for no other reason,I neck turn because a uniform neck gives me peace of mind.I cant say my gun is more accurate because of it,although I'd like to think it is. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif If I had to cite a reason for turning other than peace of mind,I'd have to say better control over even neck tension with less than high quality brass.Ive also had the same experiences with runout using the expander type dies.It didnt matter where I tried to center the expander stem or anything else I tried,runout was terrible.I switched to a neck bushing die and after firing new brass with this type setup my runout is .001" or less for the most part.
     
  9. temmi

    temmi New Member

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    I do the exact same thing... I think it has helped "marginally"… I thinks it also helps when I weigh and sort…
     
  10. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Anyone else use a Wilson Neck Reamer? I've done both turning and reaming and seem to have gravitated to reaming.

    Results are seem to be at least as good as (and maybe better?) and definitely a more simple operation than turning.
     
  11. Jim Hundley

    Jim Hundley Well-Known Member

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    Measure the neck wall thickness and sort brass to have the thickness within .0005".In a standard chamber,you will not realize accuracy improvment.It might improve bullet run-out if a bushing type neck sizer is used.No expander ball!
    Jim
     
  12. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't go by competition herd movements. Many of these shooters order what others use, enter a lot of events, and shoot, shoot, and shoot, and they win something. The others are doing the same thing, and so the guy who shoots the best wins more often. That's just the way it looks to me. Some in competition, don't know or care about ballistics, some don't experiment, some don't even weigh their powder. They'll claim they do just fine without extra efforts in reloading, and I'm sure they do. But that doesn't mean they couldn't do better. It just means they probably won't.
    There is also the possibility that concentric ammo only benefits those with more accurate systems. For example, a 1/2moa system may or may not benefit at all from turning. A 1/8moa system might not get there without it. Anyone would have to consider the distance these MOA designations are referenced to as well. Cuz 1/2moa @1kyd is plenty 'good enough'. So would neck turning help a competitor?
    And of coarse there are barrels that shoot what they shoot regardless. Apparently NOBODY knows what actually makes rifles shoot more accurate.
    Plenty know what makes em shoot like crap though!

    All I'm saying is neck turning won't hurt. If your lazy, or don't want to mess with it for another reason, I'm sure you can find someone competing, maybe even winning, who doesn't do squat. That might make ya feel better in benchrest world.
    Now, what ya gonna do in the real world?
     
  13. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Mikecr,

    Well put.
     
  14. old_heli_logger

    old_heli_logger Well-Known Member

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    I guess what I was trying to get at with my comment of the bullet becoming the sizer is...even though the neck starts out 0.004" smaller, when the bullet is seated, then the neck is resized and you end up with the same 0.001" neck tension. Has anyone ever tried a bullet pull experiment with different neck sizers? Does it actually increase the neck tension? BTW--I've only been reloading for four years, so I'm still a newby at this. Please excuse my ignorance. Thanks!! Great post!