Prove MK's Expand At Long Range.

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by sakofan, May 17, 2003.

  1. sakofan

    sakofan Well-Known Member

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    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    I've got a real problem here!!!
    I just read my owners manual for my Sako 75, and it say's (gulp) Dont use reloaded ammunition!!!
    What to do, what to do?!?!?
    LOL...peace.sakofan.. [​IMG]
     
  2. Savage99

    Savage99 Active Member

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    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    Dave King,

    Just prove it to me. Just as you don't know me and I have never heard of you I want to see some actual facts. I referenced the Sierra manual just above. Since they make the bullets and have a disclaimer on hundreds of pages I ask you to provide facts.

    A post above says that MK's will just pass thru a coyote at 700 yds. Now I am talking about reasonable guns fired at game. I don't mean some hyper velocity smooth bore.

    You can reference any other match grade bullets if you want like Sencors.

    I did fire an MK into water filled jugs at close range and it blew up far more than normal hunting bullets but that's ok. I don't expect them to perform at close range.

    Thanks for the information.
     

  3. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    Anything with a hollowpoint expands, even Barnes solid copper bullets do well for the first 200-300 yards.

    Think about it for a minute and you'll understand why the HP simply works well at long range, the poly tip bullets like the A-Max may work even better.

    I believe any bullet has a minimum impact velocity that it fails to expand... on skin, soft tissue or water. I never seen a law that solids were not to be used on game either, they work too.

    There's data on pass through shots and non-pass through shots that suggest they both are better... I've seen both work just as well, and am far from convinced that one is superior than the other, at this point in my life.

    The situation that animals are mainly in, concerning LR anyway, is one that they often are completely unaware of the hunter and their fate from the sting of the bullet that just hit them, they simply don't have the adrenaline pumping as alot of animals do when shot up close. This, when considered, adds up to a great advantage in and of itself and the animal is likely to expire much quicker with any expanded or non-expanded impact... when hit in the right spot. Like S1 said, there's more to it than meets the eye. [​IMG]

    Many guys here have witnessed the MK's performance, and many of them hunt alone. Do I have reason to doubt their reports? Never have, and not unless they have proven themselves to be dishonest in the past, and nobody here, in my opinion, has proved to be. I'll put it to you this way; any lack of performance at whatever range with the MK bullet would be out in the wide open by now.

    Dave King is one of the few that have posted about using heavy SMK's at fairly close range too. If I remember correctly, everything he shot with them up closer just laughed and ran off... NOT! [​IMG]

    Game shot at LR by our members here is about our best way of evaluating performance of any bullet we all shoot, keeping an unsaid but, well understood gentlemans agreement that we all stick to the facts and don't overembellish them has worked here for a long time so far, why sew distrust, like PROVE THIS OR THAT?

    Savage99, I see you posted again right before I did, and it seems you may just be over here to try and prove to all of us they don't work at LR. I'm all ears... to a point but, still haven't been convinced by your... "tests".

    Why not keep the nay-saying at Accuratereloading.com where it's a free forum to blast us all?

    [ 05-17-2003: Message edited by: Brent ]
     
  4. Dan Conzo

    Dan Conzo Well-Known Member

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    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    Savage99

    If they kill, who cares about expansion tests. S1 explains it pretty good.
    Did you evere have a so-called hunting type bullet fail? If a gun writer comes to a rifle match, should we just call it off and give the writer the winnings? The NY Times just fired a reporter--he will probably be the next winner of the Pullitzer Prize for Journalism.
    There is plenty of testimony here on this site about Matchkings killing animals with or without pictures, who cares what a gun writer that probably don't know nothing about long range hunting says anyway, if you do that's fine. I learned from CNN the other day that the banned so-called Assault Rifles fire different ammo (more powerful) than the legal firearms. But the NRA called them liars and we know that they are, but how many people believe it, because they are supposed to be credible.
    Good gun writers like Colonel Townsend Whelen are dead.
    ---Dan
     
  5. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    If you want to see the proof and our word is not good enough load some up for your next deer or elk or whatever game you hunt and try it for your self. Sierra is always telling you they dont recomend MK's for hunting simply because they are not "engineered" for that purpose. A corvette wasent engineered for nascar either, but that doesent meen it cant go fast or handle well.

    Try it and see for yourself. Then maybee you will hold a LITTLE more stock in what we preach here by those of us that have seen 3.5" holes and 6" wound chanels in caribou at over 300 yards from sub 2700 FPS velocities.
     
  6. sakofan

    sakofan Well-Known Member

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  7. texas

    texas Well-Known Member

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    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    Savage99 there are alot of post on this forum that have pictures and testments about the SMK's I would have been a witness to a deer shot at 18 yards by 338 Laupa but I hurt my back and didn't get to got with him! [​IMG]

    The people on this board are here to help all of us to learn something.

    To sum it up best this is what I have to say and you can quote me on this:
    HOW CAN I LIE TO YOU, WHEN I DON'T KNOW YOU WELL ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT YOU WILL BELIEVE!
     
  8. Holmes

    Holmes Well-Known Member

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    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    Quite honestly, and with all due respect to Savage99, I do not have to prove anything to him or anyone else.

    My responsibility is to my prey and myself as an honourable hunter.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    Like any argument, it will never be settled until we can all agree on what the measurement for success or acceptable terminal performance includes. If one is antelope hunting on flat, high altitude prarie, it may be fine if the animal runs 200 yards after being hit and then expires.

    This may be TOTALLY Unacceptable on a high altitude sheep hunt where the animal runs off a steep grade and is lost or ruined.

    If the measure is the death and recovery of the animal, then MK's are successful in many conditions, keep in mind if you get better accuracy with your weapon with MK's but optimal terminal effect with something else, it won't matter if you do not hit your target.

    If you are the sensitive type who carries a stopwatch to measure the time a shot animal suffers before expiration, perhaps you are in the wrong sport, or need to pull your stopwatch out the next time you see a group of lioness tear apart a zebra to get some relative perspective.

    Whatever you decide or communicate, be specific, we all hunt under vastly different conditions and ranges. These small differences can produce vastly different outcomes, the devil is truly in the DETAILS, details we can all learn from. [​IMG]
     
  10. ewallace

    ewallace Well-Known Member

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    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    [​IMG]

    If you search the old posts you will find a lot of proof that SMK work on all different kinds of big game animal. I shot 2 deer last season with the 300g SMK out of a 338 Yogi one of the deer was 900 meters thats 984 yards

    [​IMG]

    The other was 1110 meters that's 1214 yards. Hope this helps you with your dilemma on the MK

    Crow Mag

    [ 05-17-2003: Message edited by: crow mag ]
     
  11. H-BAR

    H-BAR Well-Known Member

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    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    Will someone please turn this guy on to the "Point Blank" videos. Gee I could have sworn they used Match Kings and Amax bullets all through that flick. For stuff that doesn't expand I didn't see any deer in either video complain about dieing too slow.To Whom It May Concern it doesn't matter what Sierra says about whether their bullets expand or not, hollowpoint bullets are against the Geneva Convention. Hey S1 if you want a good match bullet that will expand pretty far out for a 223 try the Hornady 68gr match. It will make a sqeeze toy out of a deer's head at 500yds!!!
     
  12. Savage99

    Savage99 Active Member

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    Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    Can anyone proove that Sierra Match King bullets expand on game at long range? I don't mean a picture as there is no proof at what range that shot was made.

    I mean a credible witness. Does any name gun writer say that they will? Why does every other page in the Sierra manual say "Sierra does not recommed Matchking bullets for hunting applications".

    I did a bench test and at low impact the nose of a MK rivets over and that of a SBT expands.
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    Savage99...

    The Subject is way more complicated than do they expand or don't they expand. All MK bullets are not created equal, neither are they shot at the same velocity or RPM. Some times you hit bone, sometimes you do not. A 44" barrel shooting a 300 MK at an Elk out of a 1 in 9 twist with a lot of powder behind it is devastating in its terminal effect. A 77 gr. MK out of a .223 16" barrel with a 1 in 8 twist hittin a coyote at 700 yards is gonna poke two little holes, one going in and one going out. Mk bullets will frag or plug or anything in between, it all depends on the circumstances.....................
     
  14. Dave King

    Dave King Well-Known Member

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    Re: Prove MK\'s Expand At Long Range.

    Savage99

    Are you deliberately trying to piss folks off?

    I for one don't care to be called less than credible. I'd suggest you load some MK's up and spend a few precious days shooting animals and recording the results. Base your opinion of what you observe first hand.

    P. S.

    Don't bother to post the results, I don't believe you're credible enough for the rest of us to put much faith in!