Progress in the public arena of long range hunting ethics discussion!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Len Backus, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    I only subscribe to a couple of print magazines these days because of all the good content available on the internet -- like that one online magazine site called. LongRangeHunting.com :)

    In this month's edition of Deer and Deer Hunting they mentioned that in their online forum there is a video on a 1,022 yard kill shot on a deer. I wondered how that would go on a mostly bow hunting forum so I went over and found the discussion topic.

    I am rather pleased at the reaction over there and I hope it is an indication of educational progress being made on the subject. Sure there are naysayers on the thread but only about half or less as many as in 2001 when I started this forum.

    Here is the link to the 1022 yard shot forum discussion

    Please don't go over there and make us look bad by arguing with the relatively low number of naysayers. The video has lots of things wrong with serious long range technique, by the way. Ranging with a scope instead of using a range finder, shooting at the deer while it is walking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2010
  2. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Pretty cool Len. Thanks for posting.
    This was my favorite comment on the whole page!

    ''If'n y'all want to poke at the bear for real, here's a link:

    Long Range Hunting
    ''

    I like this guy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2010

  3. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    I should point out (for those that havent read the discussion) that this guy also said that there were folks here with the proper practice and equipment. He wasnt bashing it.
     
  4. bigbuck

    bigbuck Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion I would rather the deer be standing still when I shot at it ooops now that I've thought about it i've shot them running just not @ 1000 YRDS .
    Did anyone else notice the wind flag to the right of the deer ? I wonder if they had it near a huge pile of corn :D just kidding

    Bigbuck
     
  5. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    The acceptance of long range hunting has been helped by several things. one of which is this forum.

    The major equipment manufacturers have figured out that there is a lucrative market niche for long range gear and that we will pay good money for specialized stuff. This brings equipment to the open market where it is seen by regular hunters who cannot resist a new toy. In particular as in the video, scope manufacturers are helping this along. Also, the bullet makers like Berger, are a big assistance and they openly advertise the long range capability of their bullets ( That's how I got my free hat).

    The internet and video cameras have helped a lot because people really like to watch these videos and they are taken as "proof". Along with this are the people like Shawn Carlock who produce videos commercially and that gets to a wide audience.

    TV shows like BOTW brought reality (edited somewhat) right into peoples living room.

    One other weird thing has helped and perhaps only a few of us will recognize it. Post Vietnam, there was a lot of anti-military and anything to do with war, sentiment in the country. If you had served in any type of elite organization you were pretty much an outcast in society. Desert Storm seemed to bring military service back into public acceptance, and slowly, the elite units became more visible and more accepted. The hunt for Osama bin Laden brought elite units to the public's attention on a regular basis and there is now a lot of open discussion in the press of snipers and their role in warfare and they are praised and regarded as true warriors rather than the old view of backshooting cowards. This has "glamorized" elite service warfare and there is a lot more public acceptance of long range shooting at people and consequently at animals.



    I think the major obstacles at this time is that a lot of hunters hunt the same old places the same old ways and are successful at it and are not going to change. They defend their methods as good and correct methods. Some hunters would change but don't know how and can't quite get started.
     
  6. Interesting read.

    I, however, view ethics as an individual decision. My ethics are mine - and I won't explain or justify them to anyone else. I seek nobody's approval, just that of my own conscience.
     
  7. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    Jim, well said!
     
  8. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    BB, covered some excellent points. Let's hope there's a spill over that reduces the number of anti-gunners and regs too. Thanks BB well said.
     
  9. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    "dont tell my wife"

    The guy sure was funny
     
  10. longrangebob

    longrangebob Active Member

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    Actually I have some old high OD socks on - from when I was in Scouts (well more than forty years ago!!)
    Does one have to join the Deer site to post a reply to their comments??

    and why do you speak against the use of Scope for ranging (realizing it is not a precise as a good rangefinder) ... I used my loopy for my 700+ antelope as my rangefinder would not work in the bright, reflective light of the landscape ... (Leica) ... 1 shot 1 kill -- exactly where I wanted to place it -- full value Crosswind -- yes I practice at those distances .. and "The Wind is my Friend" {mantra I am working On"

    have a good Father's DAy weekend ... LRB
     
  11. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    LRB, I assume so but don't know for sure if you must register over there.

    As to ranging with a scope reticle, that shot was at 1,000 yards. At 1,000 yards, how do you think the ranging accuracy result is affected if the 14 inch deer chest is one inch more or less high? Do you think that shooter team was able to discern the exact chest height of that deer before pulling the trigger?

    It would seem to me the math on one inch would be something like:

    1/14 x 1,000 yards = 70 yards plus or minus potential error in ranging.

    With my super flat shooting 7mm Dakota that would result in plus OR minus 7 inches of drop error at 1,000 yards.

    I like the reticle ranging concept as a tech failure backup and I need to practice it with my Huskemaw scopes. But its effectiveness is probably limited to 4 or 5 hundred yards max with any degree of first-shot kill accuracy for most people - including especially me.
     
  12. longrangebob

    longrangebob Active Member

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    Thnx for your reply ....
    Point well taken; made me reflect back on the Antelope where I repeatedly checked size of Buck's chest against my "mildots and crosshairs" such that one location was 700 yds and the other was 800 -- and he was moving back and forth ... between the two distances -- but then I had lots of time to wait -- as with the wind -- I had to wait for him to be on the complete other side of the herd -- such that if the wind failed I would miss all of them, and not hit an unwanted doe!!!{As I would have risked had I taken the shot when he was on the otherside of the herd -- had the wind abated!! Well the wind stayed strong and shot placement was spot on ...

    With this particular scope I am limited to 800 yd. max. (sight in for main crosshair is 300 yds. exact -- with dots at 4, 5, 6, 7, & 800 yds. respectively // I have mildots horizontally and mildots and a fine crosshair 1 mil above the main horizontal for ranging and windage) -- I have shot boxes at 830 yds consistantly hitting the small metal plate -- just adjusting for windage over a bipod ... so I was ready and comfortably confident

    I take your point with what would be the size of the critter's chest at 1000 -- and if one assumed 18" chest for a really big buck and in actuality it was 14" (or even 16") cause he had good headgear and was assumed bigger than reality -- 2" off increasing over a thousand yards could make him all the more difficult for a fatal hit ...
    Further to the video ... I think I would have preferred the slow walk of a contented deer than one standing still that could move at anytime ... thanx again, LRB