Primer problems, No fire in 7mm RM

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Savagekid, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. Savagekid

    Savagekid Member

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    I'm just starting my handload testing for my 7mm RM. I have 20 rounds through it with 168 bergers and varying levels of H1000. I got great accuracy from the 64 and 65.5 grain loads. BUT out of the 20 handloads, I had 3 no fires. I have 40 rounds of factory ammo through it with no problems so I assume it isn't the rifle. I'm using the RCBS partner press and priming with that little priming arm on the press. Using the Winchester large rifle primers. The firing pin is just barely making a dent in the primers on the no fired rounds. So I'm assuming that I'm cranking on the handle a little too hard and seating the primers a little too deep. BUT I also have very little experience with reloading.

    If anyone has any solutions or other ideas as to what might be my problem, I'd love to hear them!
     
  2. Topgun 30-06

    Topgun 30-06 Well-Known Member

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    So what do the primers that didn't fire look like for seating depth compared to ones that functioned properly? It sounds like maybe you answered your own question.
     

  3. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    ???rifle headspace???-- sounds like either that or soft hits/ weak spring/ etc. for the firing pin or a gooped up bolt

    if it's ammo.....
    are you cleaning your primer pockets to get the carbon out??
    did you tumble the brass and forget to knock the media out of the flashholes??
    Did you have powder in the ones that didn't go off??
    I've got the rockchucker press (with better leverage) and I'd have to sit on the handle and bounce to actually damage a primer-- so I rather doubt that is the issue.
     
  4. Topgun 30-06

    Topgun 30-06 Well-Known Member

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    "if it's ammo.....
    are you cleaning your primer pockets to get the carbon out??
    did you tumble the brass and forget to knock the media out of the flashholes??
    Did you have powder in the ones that didn't go off??"


    What in the heck do those comments have to do with the primers not going off? The only other thing I can think of if it isn't the primers being seated to deep is that maybe the primers were mishandled and some were contaminated. Other than those two things, then it could be the gun itself like a weak spring or a need for better cleaning like was mentioned.
     
  5. rmorgan9718

    rmorgan9718 Well-Known Member

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    This is a 7mm Rem Mag? Doesn't it headspace off the mag base ring?
     
  6. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    What in the heck do those comments have to do with the primers not going off? The only other thing I can think of if it isn't the primers being seated to deep is that maybe the primers were mishandled and some were contaminated. Other than those two things, then it could be the gun itself like a weak spring or a need for better cleaning like was mentioned.

    I have to agree with Topgun, sounds like contaminated primers to me.

    I do a gob of reloading because one, I have time and two because I'm cheap, load development notwthstanding....

    I never prime on the press for a couple reasons. One, I want to feel every primer and how it's sitting in the pocket in relationship to the cartridge face and two, working a hand primer while watching the boob tube, strengthens your hands.

    The primer itself may be hard, which happens sometimes but not often or the gun has a dirty bolt/firing pin drillway and needs a thorough cleaning.

    I'd start with pulling the bolt and giving it a good cleaning, paying close attention to the firing pin and then a tiny dab of gun oil on the firing pin to lubricate the drillway. The start looking at the cartridge itself. You shot factory stuff, no problem. I believe it's dirt/powder residue in the pin drillway.

    Looking at your original post, I see it's a Savage. Savage is noted for a light pin spring. Yjay makes it coubly important to have the drillway clean and lubricated.

    Not too much, thats no good as is too little. Just a drop.

    Like Kimber Arms says in their literature.... Oiling a firearm to excess is as bad as no oil at all.
     
  7. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    I use over 10,000 primers a year and you just get a hand full of bad ones out of every 1000, it happens. Oh and if he did forget to charge the (I have before) the primer went off just no boom and a light hit because of no pressure. Also being that it is a savavge you can adjust the firing pin striking depth out a few thousands at a time if need be. Winchester and CCI primers also have a harder cup than others, try Fed210Ms they go off easy, stay away from Rem 9 1/2s they are shorter and sink deeper in the pocket sometimes causing hang fires if everything else isn't just right.
     
  8. Aussie Hunter Steve

    Aussie Hunter Steve Member

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    I have owned and loaded for five 7mm RM rifles and use Federal 215M primers exclusively as these primers are designed for large capacity cases burning slow powder, some of which is hard to reliably ignite. They provide consistant ignition and loads with very little velocity deviation.
    I am not suggesting this is the cause of your problem and others have given helpful advice in this regard.
     
  9. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    I've had 3 7 rem's (not to mention a bunch of other 7mm's) and they all perform well on mag primers. A hotter standard primer like a wlr is pretty sure to ignite the powder in this case too unless you are using "ball" powders or terribly compressed with stick powder. You are only burning 10 grains more powder(give or take) over the '06 class rounds. A 7stw or 7rum (with their enhanced capacities) wiill take a 215 or equivalant.

    I think the OP has got a rather simple issue like missing powder or obstructed flash-holes.
    If it's not ammo(especially if it starts showing up with factories too) it is your bolt/ firing pin assmbly; gooped up or weak spring, possibly short firing pin.
    If not that is may be headspace-- especially if you've been running heavy loads for a while in the rifle. It would take gunsmith work to fix that and you could tell with headspace guages. Find these either at your 'smith or order 'em in from Midway, Brownells, etc..
     
  10. Topgun 30-06

    Topgun 30-06 Well-Known Member

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    Lefty---The PRIMER is not going KABOOM. It has nothing to do with the primer not igniting the powder in the case. One more time--- The primers are dimpled by the firing pin but are not going off. They are either seated too deep, are contaminated, or the firing pin is not striking them a full blow due to a weak spring or the assembly is in need of cleaning.
     
  11. rmorgan9718

    rmorgan9718 Well-Known Member

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    one other source of lack of depth for firing pin strike i encountered with primer pockets not cleaned, primers seated too shallow, and when struck by the pin, they simply moved forward in the pocket, not allowing the primer to ignite. he might try pulling bullet and powder, and firing some of his handloads 'bare' of powder and bullet. check the cartridge base before and after each fire to see if the primers are moving in the pocket.

    anyone every had primer pockets too deep? i've heard of it but never experienced it in 30+ years reloading everything from straight wall pistols to 458 mags.
     
  12. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    take a depth mic and measure the depth of the prime to the back face of the case. It ought to be around .005". I often prime cases off my Forster press without ever seeing a problem in ignition. But the primer are always in the .004"-.0055" range.

    Whatkind of case lube are you using? Much of them will kill a primer.
    gary
     
  13. Savagekid

    Savagekid Member

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    My first thought was that the headspacing was off, but I double and triple checked with my headspace gauges and they were spot-on.
    The brass was brand new never fired so fouling or cleaning media should not have been a problem. Type of primer (as far as ignition of powder) isn't an issue since the primers aren't even activating.
    I cleaned the bolt assembly and it wasn't dirty at all. I test-fired another box of factory ammo and all 20 went off.
    Numerous of you said that it is about impossible to seat the primer too deep and as far as my eye can tell they look like they are seated just fine.
    So I've narrowed it down to three options:

    1. The primers somehow went bad and are simply not going to work.
    2. The material of these primers is "harder" than the factory primers.
    3. The pin is set too short for how my loader seats the primers.

    I'm assuming it is one of the second two since the mark on the primer from the pin is just barely making a mark.

    Solution: Throw out primers and get new ones. Increase the length of the firing pin by a couple thousandths.

    If that doesn't work, I might have to bring my barrel into the action a couple thousands and really tighten up the headspace.

    Thanks for all the help and ideas! Keep the info coming please!
     
  14. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    o.k. he said no fire, not that THE PRIMER DIDN"T GO OFF-- no fire to me means that the round didn't fire --------geez.....