Pre fit Barrels?

[RockZ]

I built a260 ai for a buddy using a shilen rachet rifle pre fit. it shoots amazing.
fire forming loads it put 10 shots in 1/4".
I fired five more and opened the group to.5".
At 565yds put 4 shots in 1.5"
Looks like I poked a good pig.LOL

 

[J E Custom]

JE,

That is kind of what I assumed. I know when I had my 338 build my gunsmith went to great lengths to be sure everything was consentric in every way possible and the results were fantastic. So this prefit thing is kind of a sounds too good to be true type of thing, however I cant really afford to spend the kind of money on a build like I did the first time so keeping your opinion/experience in mind I think i might take a gamble and try it out. it is within my budget and could be a good learning experience. Hopefully I get a good one...

Hey; Life is a gamble and not all of them are bad. (I have never worked on a good one)
because they didn't need it.

Just wanted to prepare you In the advent it doesent shoot well.

I understand about the budget.

I hope it turns out well.

J E CUSTOM

 

[CRNA]

Hey; Life is a gamble and not all of them are bad. (I have never worked on a good one)
because they didn't need it.

Just wanted to prepare you In the advent it doesent shoot well.

I understand about the budget.

I hope it turns out well.

J E CUSTOM

Just wondering. Do you often hear of people getting prefit barrels that they are unhappy with? Just curious because it seems that I had quite the opposite experience with people's opinions of prefit barrels when I was shopping for mine. I know that I have been very pleased with mine. Then again, I never shot my rifle with the factory sporter on it, so maybe I spent nearly $300 for nothing. I'm not attacking you by any means whatsoever. It just surprises me that you seem to have had bad experiences with prefits.
Steve

 

[Trickymissfit]

I know you ask about pre fit barrels but having replaced a lot of them I do not recomend a pre fit
barrel from anyone.

I know there are some that shoot well , but the odds are good that you will get a so so barrel,and
chamber because they are mass produced just like the factory barrels and just like the factory barrels not all shoot well.

The pre fit custom barrels have a better chance but they are not allways that well machined.
The barrel blank may be good but the chambering job falls short, the barrel cant make up for
it.

You stated that you were after accuracy and IMO there is only one way to improve the odds of
getting a real shooter is with one of the top end barrels and first class gunsmithing.

There are a half dozen well known smiths on this site that can give you an accuracy guarantee.
and deliver.

A pre fit barrel is a Pig in a Polk and If it works out "Great" but if it doesent there is not much
you can do without spending More money.

You get what you pay for (some times) and there is no short cut to accuracy.

Pre fit barrels will say It "should" shoot 1MOA but they will say it is the assembly or something
if it doesn't, but a smith has total control of quality and can offer 1/2 MOA and achieve it.

Of course this is just my opinion, based what I have seen and others have had good luck
with there's so the choice is yours.

J E CUSTOM

have had or have been around a dozen or so prefits in the past and present. The only serious gripe I have about them is the throat. Of the chambers I have seen in the past, the Pacnor is the best due to the options they offer in the neck alone. The only ones I curently shoot are a Wilson .222 with a .246 neck and a Sharpshooter in 6/250AI (a Douglas blank). The Wilson will shoot in the sixes out of a TC and the SS barrel is a solid high twos gun. If the throat was different and the neck cut to a .264" diameter; I think it would be a low twos rifle on any one of the three Savages I own. I know of one well known shooter that took a 112BT and added a prefit barrel on it, and won several benchrest shoots with it in the northwest a few years back.
it can be done!
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

Just wondering. Do you often hear of people getting prefit barrels that they are unhappy with? Just curious because it seems that I had quite the opposite experience with people's opinions of prefit barrels when I was shopping for mine. I know that I have been very pleased with mine. Then again, I never shot my rifle with the factory sporter on it, so maybe I spent nearly $300 for nothing. I'm not attacking you by any means whatsoever. It just surprises me that you seem to have had bad experiences with prefits.
Steve

been around prefits in everything from .222 to .358 mag, and found everyone to shoot very well. I see no problem. You can select a standard grade barrel or a select match. With at least two of them you can even select the neck size and a couple other options. Yet on the otherhand some of the worst chambers I've seen were cut by gunsmiths that were highly regarded. I'll never have a gunsmith ream a chamber again unless it is something I dreamed up.
gary

 

[sinarms]

I highly recommend prefit barrels for Savage rifles. Yes I have seen some bad ones, yes I have reworked bad ones. Have they come from the company mentioned in the original post? Yes they have. Is that saying all prefits are bad? no, actually you have a good chance of getting a good prefit from most company's.

I am not a prefit barrel "salesman" though. Every barrel I make I cut myself, inspect myself, and ship myself. Anyone can take orders and "sell" you a barrel, hell they will even have it drop shipped to you. Do they know how to properly cut a chamber? Dial in a barrel to .0002" before even touching it a tool? I would say probably not.

Now the question was asked if there are a guarantee of accuracy for prefits. I myself will guarantee 1/2" 5 shot group @ 100yrds with either a Brux or a Shilen barrel cut by me. Now you must be able capable of shooting those groups and so must the rest of your equipment. There are a lot of custom builders out there that aren't on this board that are lucky to get a rifle to shoot under 1" groups, but they again there are ones that will amaze you how well they shoot.

Now prefit Remington barrels are a whole different story, I have yet to see one that shot acceptable.

 

[J E Custom]

I highly recommend prefit barrels for Savage rifles. Yes I have seen some bad ones, yes I have reworked bad ones. Have they come from the company mentioned in the original post? Yes they have. Is that saying all prefits are bad? no, actually you have a good chance of getting a good prefit from most company's.

I am not a prefit barrel "salesman" though. Every barrel I make I cut myself, inspect myself, and ship myself. Anyone can take orders and "sell" you a barrel, hell they will even have it drop shipped to you. Do they know how to properly cut a chamber? Dial in a barrel to .0002" before even touching it a tool? I would say probably not.

Now the question was asked if there are a guarantee of accuracy for prefits. I myself will guarantee 1/2" 5 shot group @ 100yrds with either a Brux or a Shilen barrel cut by me. Now you must be able capable of shooting those groups and so must the rest of your equipment. There are a lot of custom builders out there that aren't on this board that are lucky to get a rifle to shoot under 1" groups, but they again there are ones that will amaze you how well they shoot.

Now prefit Remington barrels are a whole different story, I have yet to see one that shot acceptable.

I think you hit the nail on the head. If a person does them himself like sinarms then the odds of
getting a bad one are a lot less but the ones that are ordered on line through suppliers like Midway
are the ones that I have had the most trouble.

They are mass produced and there is very little consideration for the end user. because they are bulk discounted and bottom line seems to be the priority.

It is also odd that I have found the same thing wrong as gary with a lot of the pre fit barrels( Bad
throats. bad lead or none on a few.I also re barreled one that did not have any throat and the rifling was square to the bore(No lead). This thing was blowing the primers with minimum loads.

I will say that the supplier refunded his money and made it right with the customer.

I have installed a few and I automatically check them for machine accuracy and have not found one
that did not need some work.I have also seen custom rifles with lots of problems so it is not just
the prefit barrels that have problems.

So that's why I don't like them and recomend having a good gunsmith at least install it and correct anything that is needed.

I only make recommendations based on personal experiences and I'm sure that there are just as many people that have had good experiences with Pre fits. So those that like them and/or make them, No Offense intended, just my opinion.

J E CUSTOM

 

[hammertyme]

I guess I have to be the luckiest guy in the world when it comes to pre everything barrels. I must have 2 dozen factory Savage barrels that were mass produced and only had to lap two of them which was done before I ever fired a round. I do not own a Savage barrel that won't shoot a half inch or less three shot group.

Mcgowen: I have at least 6 of them both in pre-fit Savage and blanks that I welded lugs on for break open application. Back in the day when they first started out and all those awesome barrel makers still worked at the shop they consistantly made a super barrel.

I have been buying Benchmark barrels in Washington state the past 2 years and every pre-fit Savage barrel bugholes with NO exceptions. I do not own a Benchmark barrel (nine now) that shoots over .250! I quit turning blanks and chambering some years ago thanks to Benchmark. The most I do is measure the hole through the brakes to make sure it is big enough for a particuler caliber of the barrel the brake is on.

My best two shooting barrels are a Savage factory 300RUM cut back to 19" and a Benchmark 6BR 17" barrel! The 300 was cut and turned down from large to small shank and Nitrided before it was ever fired (hunter Profile). The stainless 6 Br barrel I bought barely used from a friend and it is still virtually unfired and in the white so to speak 1.60" bull). Both were pre-made without the action present. I have two Savage 338 Win Mag factory cut down barrels that are one holers and not far behind the afore mentioned barrels.

I can not honestly believe that someone would imply or even say that a gunsmith is required to thread and chamber a Savage barrel without the action present or one stands a good chance of getting a bad barrel. I guess team Savage must have been lieing when the two guys were shooting factory everything when the team won the world championships HUH? When Stan Pate (captain) told me he set the factory barrel up himself and explained to me how he torqures the Barrel nut and action screws.

Neal
PS I personally wood contact Jim Briggs at Northland SHooters supply if he carried the caliber of Kreiger barrels that I needed. AT $250. for a top of the line pre-everything Savage barrel not many can compete with this price for a top of the line barrel.

 

[J E Custom]

I can not honestly believe that someone would imply or even say that a gunsmith is required to thread and chamber a Savage barrel without the action present or one stands a good chance of getting a bad barrel. I guess team Savage must have been lieing when the two guys were shooting factory everything when the team won the world championships HUH? When Stan Pate (captain) told me he set the factory barrel up himself and explained to me how he torqures the Barrel nut and action (QUOTE)


I can not honestly believe that someone is nieve enough to believe that Team Savage went to
Walmart and bought a couple of rifles and used them to win the world championship.

You must know that they were selective and chose only the best parts like every one did that
had a team or shot that match. Any manufacture is going to use only the best that they can
produce and have the best armorer/ Gunsmith assemble the rifle. with thousands of barrels to
chose from It is very possible to find a good combination of barrel and action.

To get a class one thread fit one has to cut the threads to fit the action and/or cut the action
threads and then cut the threads on the barrel to fit the action. Pre threaded barrels are not and
cannot be that good or they would not fit all actions. they are all undersized so they will fit any
action.and that is just one thing that has to be right to produce a realy accurate rifle.

Little things that may only reduce the group by .050 thousandths add up and make the difference
in a great rifle and a good rifle.

Accurizing does not mean screwing something together and head spacing it, it means checking
everything, correcting anything that is not as perfect as possible, assembly of all of these parts
properly and testing to prove performance.

My point to all of this is; Simply buying a pre fit barrel from a reputable company does not
guarantee accuracy. You can get lucky but not every time.

Savage does make good rifles. but this sounds like just another sales promotion and not real
world conditions.

Having competed for many years on the national level I can tell you for a fact , the top shooters
and teams used only the finest equipment and had the support of many vendors. Even the barrel
makers selected there very best barrels for these people and It was a way of boosting sales.

The military had an armorer that accompanied the team and supplied them with parts,ammo
any maintenance and service or repair that was nessary. The big factory teams also came with all
of this support.

Pre fit barrels are great for those that cant or don't have the equipment to build a rifle from
scratch. They allow shooters to improve the factory rifles performance without having to use
a Gunsmith and that's also great. But good is only as much as a person is willing to except.

Just because a guy wins a match with a certain barrel does not mean that it is the best barrel
in the world. It means that on that day, he had the right combination of rifle, ammo,weather,
skill and luck, and it was just his day.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Tikkamike]

I agree with JE

 

[Boss Hoss]

I can not honestly believe that someone would imply or even say that a gunsmith is required to thread and chamber a Savage barrel without the action present or one stands a good chance of getting a bad barrel. I guess team Savage must have been lieing when the two guys were shooting factory everything when the team won the world championships HUH? When Stan Pate (captain) told me he set the factory barrel up himself and explained to me how he torqures the Barrel nut and action (QUOTE)


I can not honestly believe that someone is nieve enough to believe that Team Savage went to
Walmart and bought a couple of rifles and used them to win the world championship.

You must know that they were selective and chose only the best parts like every one did that
had a team or shot that match. Any manufacture is going to use only the best that they can
produce and have the best armorer/ Gunsmith assemble the rifle. with thousands of barrels to
chose from It is very possible to find a good combination of barrel and action.

To get a class one thread fit one has to cut the threads to fit the action and/or cut the action
threads and then cut the threads on the barrel to fit the action. Pre threaded barrels are not and
cannot be that good or they would not fit all actions. they are all undersized so they will fit any
action.and that is just one thing that has to be right to produce a realy accurate rifle.

Little things that may only reduce the group by .050 thousandths add up and make the difference
in a great rifle and a good rifle.

Accurizing does not mean screwing something together and head spacing it, it means checking
everything, correcting anything that is not as perfect as possible, assembly of all of these parts
properly and testing to prove performance.

My point to all of this is; Simply buying a pre fit barrel from a reputable company does not
guarantee accuracy. You can get lucky but not every time.

Savage does make good rifles. but this sounds like just another sales promotion and not real
world conditions.

Having competed for many years on the national level I can tell you for a fact , the top shooters
and teams used only the finest equipment and had the support of many vendors. Even the barrel
makers selected there very best barrels for these people and It was a way of boosting sales.

The military had an armorer that accompanied the team and supplied them with parts,ammo
any maintenance and service or repair that was nessary. The big factory teams also came with all
of this support.

Pre fit barrels are great for those that cant or don't have the equipment to build a rifle from
scratch. They allow shooters to improve the factory rifles performance without having to use
a Gunsmith and that's also great. But good is only as much as a person is willing to except.

Just because a guy wins a match with a certain barrel does not mean that it is the best barrel
in the world. It means that on that day, he had the right combination of rifle, ammo,weather,
skill and luck, and it was just his day.

J E CUSTOM

Am going to get hell for this but---it is evident that there are many people who do not have the slightest clue about building a accurate rifle and are very gullible. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AND CRY ONCE!!!!

 

[shortgrass]

Over the last few years we are seeing "custom" and "drop it" in the same sentence more and more. Maybe, with all the technology available, definitions of those words could be looked up.

 

[diriel]

1 moa is not even close to adequate for me. I am beyond glad that my 1st ever custom savage pre-fit is finally pretty much shot out. I have hated that barrel from day one. I can tell you one thing, I will never do business with the "fine folks" who sold me that savage pre-fit.
"Oh, you ARE geting 1moa? Good, we never said you would get under 1 moa, have a nice day!"
...Do what?? I did NOT spend $400 on a super select match pre-fit only to get 1moa!! Hell my original savage barrel would do 3/4 moa easy enough, AND it cleaned up better. Not to mention it fouled less.

What JE said about chambers... is exactly what bit me in the ***. I will throw out a Two Thumbs up for Bob Jourdan though! He cut a new 6.5x55 BJAI chamber on that barrel for me, and suddenly it was dead easy to get well under 1moa from just about any load i tossed at it. That still didn't do anything for how quickly it would copper foul. I had 2 savage factory sticks at the time, and both would clean up in half the time as compared to that super select match. So, yeah, it is time to re-barrel, but I am **** Shy about ordering another pre-fit due to the problems I had with my first one.

Just so you all know, I have been reloading for over 20 years, and for the first 5 or so years i prided myself on being able to make ANY rifle shoot MOA or less as long as it was in good general condition. That **** savage pre-fit was the absolute hardest I have EVER had to work at getting one to shoot. It took me over 500 rounds, and about a month of sweating and cussing to get it dialed in.

Ok, sorry for the rant, but this touched a nerve. Good luck.
Gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

well I guess I'm able to walk on water! My 6/250AI is on a Douglas 1:8 blank, and reamed by Fred over at Sharp Shooter Supply. It'll push a 105 grain bullet at just under 3100 fps, but the accuracey load seems to be a tick over 3000 fps. Groups run in the high twos, and the barrel has never seen Sweets in it's life time. To be exact the only thing the barrel has ever seen is Butch's and Shooter's Choice. Fairly good for a prefit Savage barrel, but not great as I've seen several shoot low twos and even a few mid to high ones with 22 centerfires. I honestly think there's another .075" in the gun with a 1" strait profile and a 23" barrel.
gary