Pick a primer

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by royinidaho, Jan 14, 2006.

  1. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Been attempting to get the Standard Deviation of my loads down a bit. I usually just keep track of max spread but seeing as how most of the folks here talk in SD.... When in Rome.....

    Usint RL-22, velocity is good, groups at 200 yds are way small but my full sized steel coyote is safe about 50% of the time at 735 due to shooting high, then low, then starting to chase the last shot which results in way more misses at /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    Experimenting with Ramshot Magnum. Heard rumor that Large Rifle primers worked better than Magnum primers. Tho't I'd give it a go.

    While striving for statistical significance /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I know this isn't many shots but here's the results.

    What would you recommend my next step to be?

    All things were constant except for the primers. Fed-215s and CCI-200s.

    Target "A" 84gr Ramshot Magnum
    CCI 200 primers
    Sierra 250 game kings.
    [​IMG]
    Target "B" 84gr Ramshot Magnum
    FEd 215 primers
    Sierra 250 game kings
    [​IMG]

    Number crunching:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Two questions.

    How long did you wait between shots?

    Was the top target fired first?

    My impression is that the barrel is walking vertically about 0.25 MOA per shot. There is only a 8.3% probability that bullets would line up like that twice by random effect and if the top target was fired first then there is there is less than 1% chance of six bullets lining up 1,2,3,4,5,and 6 by random luck. Perhaps I should go and get out my probablity theory book but I think it is 6 factorial.
     

  3. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Don't you ever sleep.

    Bye the way, keep your good eye out for jimm. He's awaitin' for ya around the next post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I fired 1 shot at each target in succession. Shot 1 @ target 1, then shot 2 to target 2 and around and around till I ran out of loads.

    Outside temp was 50 degress, hellofa deal for late Jan. Very slight wind.

    Waited several minutes between each shots.
     
  4. wapiti13

    wapiti13 Well-Known Member

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    Roy, Yes, according to RamShot they recommend std primers for their powders. Although your sample is small, the std primer had a better SD than the mag. I'd try a Fed 210 or 210M primer and Win LR to see what gives best SD and groups. Personally, I usually find Fed 210M give better results than CCI. Then, do the usual seating games to find sweet spot. What has been the group size for this barrel? Good luck!
     
  5. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    I have been using CCI BR-2 lately. They have been giving me good groups and low SD's. I used to use mainly Fed 210's. I have tried the same loads just different primers and gotten mixed results. Some just like 1 primer better then the other for a given load. I guess you just gotta keep experimenting to find that "perfect load."
     
  6. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Jimm is just happier than a pig in slop now you have given him the little roll a round on the floor guy. You should get him to send you a picture of his truck.

    [ QUOTE ]
    fired 1 shot at each target in succession. Shot 1 @ target 1, then shot 2 to target 2 and around and around till I ran out of loads.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Same issue with barrel. Almost no chance that the vertical stringing is random. What I have to do to get tight groups is wait almost 10 minutes between shots. At temeratures under 50 degrees you can probably get by with 5 minutes if you have a factory barrel (heavy barrel heats up slow but then stores it for a long time). If you are planning on using this gun for long range shooting at animals then the critical thing is to take at least an hour to shoot you base zero group of five rounds. This will ensure that the 0.25 MOA walking error is not transmitted down range.

    I pretty much know that with my gun I get two shots to same point of impact and then things start going high and right in a hurry unless I let the barrel go back to stone cold.

    Those are really nice groups nonetheless given the size of the projectile.
     
  7. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    [ QUOTE ]
    What has been the group size for this barrel? Good luck!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    W/RL-22 and both Sierra 250 GK and WC 252s 3 shot groups of around 1/4 MOA @ 200 are achievable. They open to right around 1 MOA with SMKs.

    Buffalobob:

    When tuning the RL-22 load. I reached a powder weight that resulted in quite defined Vertical stringing. I then jumped the powder at least a grain, maybe more and got Horizonal stringing. Dropped back about half of the amount I jumped and got 3, 3-shot 1/2" groups @ 200 in succession. (Well spaced 3 shot group, loaded 3 more and shot them, then reload the last 3 and shot them.) Reloading room is 100yds from the shooting bench.

    I guess I just like experimenting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    Your point's well taken on the barrel warming. I keep forgeting that its a remington barrel.
     
  8. wapiti13

    wapiti13 Well-Known Member

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    Roy, Looks like you are taking fine tuning to a new level. One good thing about Magnum powder is that it is supposed to be temp stable. Most powder folks rate Fed 210 as a hot std primer. If you look at Ramshot loading data, it is all shown with Fed 210 or Win LR primers. That should tell you something! Keep shooting those little groups. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  9. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    [image]http://[​IMG][/image]
     
  10. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Remembered something that I have been told many times. Restart load development when purchasing a new lot of RL-22.

    Objective of the day was compare my final loading of Ramshot Magnum powder w/CCI-200 primers against my 'standard' load of 74.5 gr of RL-22 and FED-215 primers.

    Note that the RL-load has been producing about 2800 fps w/high SDs.

    My last shooting indicated, to me, that 84.2 (up 0.2 from 84) grains of the Ramshot Magnum w/the CCI-200 should do the trick.

    Note: all shots at 200 yds as is normal. Note sequence of shots. I kind of like that round robin thing.

    Ramshot Magnum shots.
    [​IMG]

    The 'standard'84.5 gr RL-22 load.
    [​IMG]


    Stats: Note the RL-22 load is up 130 or so FPS /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Think I ought to go buy the rest of the cans on the shelf if the lot #s match.

    Also note the SD on the RL-22. Not what I'm used to. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Couldn't believe it so I loaded 2 more to check (shots 4 & 5. Didn't shoot at the same target as they weren't out in the weather for as long as the others. But that didn't make any difference.
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    I guess they bought a new broom for the janitor to use sweeping the floor at the factory. Not as many dead roaches and cigarette butts in that lot.

    What lot # do you have?
     
  12. Nomosendero

    Nomosendero Well-Known Member

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    Your post may state it somewhere, but I am tired & may have
    overlooked it, but I am curious what the temperature was when you did this load testing?
     
  13. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Here's the weather details

    Blackfoot (BLK)
    Data: Jan/21/06 12:00 (MST)

    Wind
    Speed: 9 mph
    Gust: 14 mph
    Direction: 243 degrees

    Air Temperature
    6-ft: 28.9 °F
    Wind Chill: 20.5 °F
    50-ft: 28.6 °F

    Atmospheric Moisture
    Relative Humidity: 88 %
    Dew Point: 25.8 °F

    Barometer
    Absolute: 25.573 in Hg
    Sea Level: 30.013 in Hg

    Solar Energy
    Solar Radiation: 106 W/m2