Overall, which is the best performer??

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Derek M., Nov 23, 2005.

  1. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,417
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    SMK, Amax, Berger, Wildcat?

    I've killed quite a few deer with smk bullets but have never tried the others. I have 500 169.5 grain for my 270 AM, but I will not have time to try them this season on big game.

    After speaking with R.G. at Wildcat bullets, I'm impressed with the design and his knowledge. In essence, I guess I wonder why would there be a need to use a match grade bullet if these Wildcats are available.

    John Burns is sponsored by Berger and according to the folks at Berger, Mr. Burns has tested and is pleased with the outcome of their performance on game at long range.

    No bias here for Wildcat bullets but they seem to be the "answer" I've been wondering about for a few years. Can anyone compare their performance with SMK, Amax, or Bergers on game?

    The "what ifs" that concern me are "don't hit bone" but when shooting at 700 yards, it might happen and what are the typical outcomes from the match designed bullets?

    The deer I've killed with SMKs have always been less than what most here would consider "long range." So, I was always certain of shot placement---and I've never personally had a problem with them. Well, one did screw up a beautiful cape on a nice buck one time with the exit hole but I just got a different cape.

    Remarks?
     
  2. sewwhat89

    sewwhat89 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    773
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    I have been developing some loads for my 300 WM and 300 RSAUM with Berger VLDs and SMK. Today I shot a couple rounds at a steel "gong" if you will. The Bergers left no discernable mark on the unpainted metal. The 190 SMK left a rather deep nickel sized imprint. I shot 168, 185 and 190 VLDs into the same gong with no marks. That is all I can add to your response.
     

  3. Nomosendero

    Nomosendero Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,079
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    I came to the same conclusion about the Wildcat Bullets. They fly with the best match bullets in some calibers & perform on game when they arrive. We used the 125gr. 25 cal.
    Wildcat in Wyoming on 6 Antelope & 3 Mule Deer & now 1 AR.
    Whitetail with devasting effect.
     
  4. ss7mm

    ss7mm Writers Guild

    Messages:
    3,707
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    nomosendero:

    Here’s another vote for the Wildcats. I find them to be as accurate, if not more so, than anything else I’ve every shot and yes, they do perform on game. At 100 yards they’re consistently doing one ragged hole and at longer ranges they hold about ¼ moa with fire form loads.

    I took my deer and elk this year with the 7mm Wildcat 200 grain ULD RBBT slugs and they worked flawlessly. Bang flop in both cases. The ranges weren’t extremely long but in both cases I was completely satisfied with their performance. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I made .30 Cal. MatchGrade bullets for many years for NRA HP shooters and shot thousands of them myself. I've killed "several" whitetails with them using J-4 jackets and not once....did I find the bullet intact! The bullets always fragmented to a degree that I thought was totally useless! Killed the bucks....but in the final analysis...the bullet DID NOT retain it's structural integrity!! J-4 jackets which Berger uses to make his bullets are of "straight-wall" construction design interior and exterior whereas Sierra jackets are tapered on the interior and have a thicker base design over the J-4 jackets! For this reason if I were going to use these type bullets on game....I'd choose the SMK!

    FWIW!!
     
  6. 41mag

    41mag Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    752
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Stephen,

    How far was the plate placed, that you were shooting the Bergers at ?

    We shot some into a 12" dia. blind flange, which left some pretty decent sized craters. I was impressed with them on the steel, and my bud was impressed with them on a hog out past 1K yards. Of course that is what we were looking to do with them in the first place.
     
  7. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

    Messages:
    1,922
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Richard will be getting some of the Sierra jackets soon if he doesn't already have them. I know the bullets mentioned in this topic are J4s. Looks like Richard is about to make an even better product!!!!
     
  8. Charles A

    Charles A Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    480
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2001
    Really of those listed, I have alot more expeirence with the SMK's and A-Max's. I have been shooting the 178gr amax in 300WM for the last 3 or 4 years, and am extremly pleased with how they kill. Up close hit shoulder bones and they wont exit, but will destroy everything inside. If it hits no bone or ribs, lots of damage and good size exits (3-4in). On long shots, 400+, they stay togther a little bit better and leave good exits. I have not had a deer take a step when hit with an Amax. Wich might seem kind of funny since the MK wounds tend to be alot more gruesome, but the Amax dumps all of its "energy" inside the animal. So basicly for deer size game I "think" I like the amax;s better.
     
  9. Jon A

    Jon A Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,092
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Another option Richard gives you that some of the others don't is bonding. You have to lose the boattail which costs you some BC, but for those concerned about bullet integrity and penetration at close/medium ranges it could be a good compromise.
     
  10. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,417
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Ok, to you and Bill B.:

    Are you guys saying that the jacket that is used in Wildcat bullets is the J-4 and it is "inferior" (for a lack of better term), than that of the Sierra MK bullets?

    I have access to tons of SMK bullets but I thought I'd like to try some Amax bullets when I try the Wildcats in a couple of months.

    Speaking of these high BC bullets, what do you all think of the Swift Scirocco? A riflesmith I use has one of those Juenke concentricity gauges and stated to me that he was quite shocked at how concentric these factory bullets were. He tried some of the new 224 caliber 75 grainers and got a 0.2 something group from his 22-6mm. He said the accuracy and consistency was surprising since it is a "factory" bullet. I read on John Burns website that he liked those bullets quite well also.

    How about those? I've only tried 2, the 130 grain in one of my 270 WCFs and the 180 in my 300 RUM. It took awhile but once I got a load for each, they were very good groups--less than 1/2" with several strings of 3.

    I took a bear with the 180 Scirocco in Alberta at 8 yards with my 30.06 and it passed through and dumped the bear on the spot. I used Re22. I was loading for power/speed instead of accuracy as all of the shots were going to be close. That is the only kill experience I have with the Scirocco.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Don't have a clue as to what jackets are used in Wildcat bullets!

    As for the Sciroccos....I've found that they are the most accurate bullet I've ever fired in my old '06 match rifle! On a decent day when the wind isn't blowing 35+....they'll print into 8-10" all day aka ten shot groups!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Oh...forgot to add....those groups are fired from 1000 yds! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  12. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

    Messages:
    1,922
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Not that they are inferior, but the J4s are just paper thin.
    They will work fine on deer sized game, but I wouldn't trust them on an elk or moose. I think RMulhern said something to this effect.
     
  13. RDM416

    RDM416 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    700
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2005
    Just to add to the mix.......I shot a whitetail doe last Sat at 689 yards with a .338 250g SMK. I had a buddy downrange about 200 yards with a video camera zoomed up close on the deer. The video of the exit is awsome! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif I don't know about the smaller cals but in .338 cal the SMKs shure dump whitetails in thier tracks!

    I have been a big fan of the sicroccos too, but with the two rifles I have been playing with this year (HS .338rum and .338 Kahn) I had trouble getting them to shoot well. Switched to Barnes TSX and SMKs and the groups tightened right up. I'm not bashing the sciroccos, I'm certain I just need to do some more load developing with them. I have shot a lot of game (elk, deer, hogs) with the 210 .338 sciroccos and the performance has been excellent.

    I've got some wildcat bullets on order, but have never fired any.
     
  14. big-foot

    big-foot Member

    Messages:
    23
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    [ QUOTE ]
    Another option Richard gives you that some of the others don't is bonding. You have to lose the boattail which costs you some BC, but for those concerned about bullet integrity and penetration at close/medium ranges it could be a good compromise.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    He can also bond the J-4 jacketed HPs as long as they are flat based?

    Or were you refering to his bonded hunting bullets with the .030 and .040 jackets?