Opinions wanted......

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Fiftydriver, Jan 14, 2007.

  1. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    I have been thinking over the last several months that I need to build myself a new varmint rifle for this next season but in looking at the arsenal I already have, the only really lacking area would be for a high volume shooter for use on gophers and P. dogs out to say 400 yards max.

    Anyway, have been thinking about this and have come back to the same round every time. See, the goals I have for this rifle chambering will be as follows:

    -300-400 round per day shooting volume
    -400 yard reach
    -Want 500 rounds loaded up at all times ready to roll
    -Very low risk of bullet bouncing around after shots down range
    -Very low recoil
    -Good valocity for flat shooting out to 400 yards
    -low muzzle blast
    -very accurate

    I am not opposed to wildcats but do not want to fireform. With a high volume shooter, forming 500 or more cases just is not practical in my opinion. Sure you can form while shooting but do not want it. Wildcat options must be able to be cold formed.

    What I keep coming up with is taking a 223 Rem for a parent case(cheap as hell) and necking it up to 6mm in a 1-12 to 1-14 twist. The bullets I will be using will be the 55 gr Ballistic Tip, 55 gr Blitzking or 60 gr Wildcat bullets.

    So why a 6mm-223 Rem? Well, with these weight bullets, it will easily match standard 22-250 velocity levels with the same bullet weight in same length barrels because of the larger diameter bore. Also, if you look at the BC of the 55 gr 224 cal Ballistic Tip and the 55 gr 6mm Ballistic Tip, the 6mm has an advantage. Really get something for nothing here.

    So why not go with the 6-250. WOuld be a great option, no doubt but I want as much barrel life as possible in this little rifle and there is no comparision between the two in this area. Sure I could get another 100-150 fps out of the 250 version but at a cost of barrel life. This was however my second choice.

    With heavier bullets, the larger 6mm on the 250 case would have a certain advantage but I will not be shooting bullets over 400 yards out of this rifle, have an entire line of rifles that can reach out long way and almost as many small ones that can take care of the close range stuff.

    THis one will be my 150 to 400 yard rifle.

    Anyway, just curious what your thoughts would be on the ultimate 400 yard and under high volume varmint round would be for you. Since we are well into the cold of winter up here, need to start thinking about warmer days in the field reducing varmint populations!!!

    Personally, I think a 6-223 Rem loaded with a 55 gr Blitzking to 3600 fps would be very hard to beat for this specific use.

    The 6mm BR would also be a great choice and very hard to beat but the 6-223 would feed much better in a repeater as well, plus they damn near give away 223 cases now days!! Not quite the case for the BR cases.

    Curious what yours would be. Got to smile when I sit here and imagine the rifles sitting out on the next varmint shoot, 218 Mashburn Bee for out to 200 yards, 6-223 for out to 400 yards, 22-250 AI for out to 600 yards, 6-284 for out to 1000 yards, and old Black Sunshine to play clean up from there on out!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Good Shooting

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  2. uncleB

    uncleB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    558
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Fiftydriver,
    Your new little one must have you up again late at night?? it most likely wont be the last time.
    to me the cartridge you are looking for is a dirty old 222REMINGTON it fit's all the criteria you mention, it sounds a bit vanilla but is one of my all-time favorites.
    I almost got frostbite visiting Phoenix this weekend,I would bet Ft. Shaw MT. was much colder than that. good time to be building gun's inside rather than using them outside.
    let us know what you decide on.
    UB
     

  3. Festus

    Festus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    213
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Kirby,

    You make a strong case for the 6mm/223 and I'm hard-pressed to suggest anything better. Maybe the 6.8 Rem necked down to 6mm, or maybe a 7.62X39 necked to 6mm. Brass for that would be pretty abundant too.

    Let us know what you decide on.

    Festus
     
  4. Mountainsheep

    Mountainsheep Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    206
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2006
    If the theory of evelution works as well as Kirby's catridge development; p-dogs, gophers &amp; chiucks inhabiting north Central Montana should become nocturnal to avoid extinction. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  5. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,522
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2001
    I see no reason to go with anything bigger than the 22PPC or 22BR. I 'd probably opt for a 9 twist just in case you decide to go with heavier bullets.

    If you are hell bent on a .243 bore than I would still use either the PPC or BR case in the larger bore. The cost of brass is small compared to the $$$$$$ and effort that goes into building a custom rifle, Assuming that you don't abuse your cases with high pressure loads they will last for a looong time anyway.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Kirby
    How about a 6mmTCU? I have one in a 10" contender that will push a 70gr matchking 2650 to 2700 with 26gr blc2. I have thought about one in a small L469 Sako,22' barrel and light fg stock.Should be able to get 55gr blitzking's over 3000fps.BTW I built a small Sako a long time ago in .223 an it has been a dandy carry rifle and a perfect size for the small .223 size case.
    Old Bear
     
  7. lerch

    lerch <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

    Messages:
    1,497
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I am getting to be a pretty big fan of the 6br. I havent gotten to shoot mine all that much but so far it has impressed me. BJ's 6mm-250 is a damn nice round, no recoil, good bbl life, and pin point accuracy!!! A 6-223 would be pretty slick and have great bbl life. I am still a big fan of the good ol 22-250 but you cant beat those 6mm bullets for ballistics.

    i am sure you will make a good decision

    steve
     
  8. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

    Messages:
    8,853
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    I here that the 223 w/10X powder is getting 22-250 velocities w/the lighter bullets. My thinkin' would then be that a 6-223 w/its larger diameter would do about the same thing with the 55gr bullet. Who knows till ya try.

    My data shows the 222 REM, 40 gr VMax and 10X is comparable to the 223 w/55s. (REM 722 w/26" bbl)
     
  9. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,053
    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Your case for the 6mm-.223 is very flawed.

    With the 6mm 55gr Blitzking, top velocities are in the 3200 fps bracked - that is NOT equal to the .22-250.

    Further, you have been seriously missled on the BC.

    The BC of the .224 55gr blitzking is .270
    The BC of the 5mm Blitzking is .220, and decending to .210 @2950fps.

    I know it fun to dream about wildcats (ask me about the long ago defunct ".222 Looong Neck" sometime), but this 6mm/.223 is old, well trampled ground (ei, many have that tee-shirt).

    The plain vanilla .223 will shoot flater, hit FASTER, and hit HARDER than the 6mm/.223.

    Plus you can buy it off the rack. I know, it's not sexy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    I know the truth is hard - I spent a lot of money on the .222 Looong Neck, and all I have to show for it is one loaded round /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  10. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,030
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    catshooter- I believe fifty was talking about the 55g nosler btips. If you look at the BC's, the 224" 55g is .267, the 6mm 55g is .276.
     
  11. Freebore

    Freebore Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    611
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Sounds like you want a 6PPC! But I like the sounds of your 6/223. I don't think the old 222 will get you to 400 reliablely.
     
  12. Jumpalot

    Jumpalot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    384
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Hey Fifty,
    Is the 6mm/223 basically the same as a 6X45? My buddy has one and it's awesome!!!! We've used it for everything from prairie dogs up through deer.
     
  13. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,053
    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    [ QUOTE ]
    catshooter- I believe fifty was talking about the 55g nosler btips. If you look at the BC's, the 224" 55g is .267, the 6mm 55g is .276.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There is a flaw in those BCs... if you take the same weight bullet (55 grains) and make one long and skinny, and one shorter and fatter, it is ballistically IMPOSSIBLE for the short/fat one to have a higher BC than the long/skinny one - just plain physics 101.

    Nosler makes good bullets, but their BCs are "creative". They do not shoot as flat as their numbers would suggest.

    And (not with standing the above), the BCs are still lower than the BK .224 equivelent, and they aren't launched as fast... that equals a step backwards for the 6mm/.223.

    It was a very popular Benchrest cartridge about 20 years ago... if it was a better round, don't you think someone would have figured out 20 years ago???

    No one shoots that round anymore. And there is a reason.

    .
     
  14. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,030
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2003
    catshooter- I fully realize the exagerations of companys BC's. It seems odd to me how the 6mm is a little higher, but I wont argue to much on the subject. Its to little difference to make a difference in the first place. Just pointing out the fact that Fifty stated he was wanting to use nosler btips and not the sierra blitzkings which you were comparing.