Old Winchester round...

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by The Surgeon, Sep 6, 2011.

  1. The Surgeon

    The Surgeon Well-Known Member

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    During the early 90's, maybe earlier, Winchester turned out a round called the "Black Talon". The Black Talon had a rather short retail life. Winchester later came out with a very similar round called the "Fail Safe". By overall appearances, they were pretty much identical i.e the "BT" and the "FS".

    Anyway, what was the cause of the Talon's short but rather successful retail career? If my memory seves me right, I remember telecasts about the distructive qualities of it's petals upon impact/expansion. The media among others stated that the hand gun round was finding it's way into criminal hands. The medical sector stated that the wounds inflicted by the Talon were massive, so much that the preservation of life was made even more difficult. In short, this media frenzy ended the Black Talons life.

    This is basically all that I can recall. There seems to be a friendly debate erupting here with some good friends and I. Could you folks give us some light on this little squabble so that my friends and I can settle this?

    I keep telling them that I am right but I just can't swing the other half. :)

    I think they do this just to irratate me. :gun):D
     
  2. strombeckj

    strombeckj Well-Known Member

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    You are correct... they are even listed under wikipedia (I know :rolleyes:)

    Now go collect your case of beer!

    Jon
     

  3. sendero72

    sendero72 Well-Known Member

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    The news media also played the "race card" since the round was called the "black" talon, it was intended to be used by police depts in shooting black criminals. Sharpton and Jackson jump on the band wagon real quick. "PC" gone amuck!
     
  4. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    They were also said to defeat bullet proof vest because of the TFE coating.

    They sold like guns at a prison break for awhile but the factory took them off the market
    for all the reasons mentioned because of the supposed liability.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  5. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    I still have a couple of boxes of them in 45 acp. Didn't know the story. Good read, Thanks

    Jeff
     
  6. The Surgeon

    The Surgeon Well-Known Member

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    I to have some in the 308 win. I can remember harvesting a deer with the Talon one time. If I remebe right, it was around 100 yards. I could have shoved a softball in the exit wound. I think I lost a front quarter due to that little thing.

    I haven't hunted white tail in some time. But I am sure there is a round out there, commercially, that is as destructive as the Talon but I haven't seen it. I am still young enough to remember how wicked that round is.

    Friday night that free Budweiser going to taste really good. Thanks guys and I'll toast one for the fine folks at LRH.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2011
  7. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

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    An overly successful marketing campaign, and an overly aggressive anti-gun media campaign combined to make a perfect storm. The Black Talons were good, but nothing really out of the ordinary. They performed very uniformly in gelatin testing (and on the street), but nothing really out of line with Speer's Gold Dots, Remington's Golden Sabres or the new round that Winchester introduced to replace the Black Talons; which was essentially the same thing without the marketing hype ratcheted back a notch or two.

    Nothing about them ever penetrating body armor (which they weren't designed to do), and they weren't teflon coated; those were the old KTW rounds. Beryllium copper, teflon coated, very high velocity and yes, they were true armor piercing rounds. They were also restricted to law enforcement sales and were never released to the general public.

    Pretty good ammo, and I still have a few hundred rounds in 40 S&W and 45 ACP.
     
  8. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    When the title read "Old Winchester Round", my mind went directly to the .40-65 and .32-20!