Nudder

Discussion in 'Bowhunting' started by Buffalobob, Jan 26, 2009.

  1. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    I had to go to the grocery store and when I came back there was a nudder box on the front porch. This one had a pig on it too.

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    I got the other box with a pig on it and went to fiddleing around and sure enough they all fit together. There was a big hole in the light bracket and there was no light in the box to fit in that hole. That ole Ether Bunny is very crafty. $40 for a bracket and no light. He’ll probably want more money to bring me a box with a light in it to fit that hole. Worse yet Spot Hogg only made such a light for the five pin model so I will need to do some modification to the bracket to get it to light all seven pins. They discontinued making these brackets so I was lucky to find one.


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  2. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    I was right!! The Ether Bunny wanted $20 more to bring me a light to fit into the bracket. He should be careful about wanting extra money because soon I won't have money to buy groceries and will be getting hungry.
     

  3. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    And you'll have to go out and kill groceries.
     
  4. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Well, the ground is covered in snow and ice so the Ether Bunny chickened out and sent his cousin the snowshoe hare with me a small box with the light in it.

    The light works very well except as mentioned previous it does not hit the #1 and #7 pins so I will need to get the dremel out, some JB Weld and a little thin sheet metal and make a few small modifications to it.

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  5. dirtball

    dirtball Well-Known Member

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    I think I am starting to understand the method to your madness.lightbulb
    This is going to be the new F-Class sight for the kids, thats why it has seven pins. This might even the odds, provided you can get the Nightforce back on when they aren't looking.:D
    Dave
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  6. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Dave
    I guess you saw last months scores. Cynthia's relay got a bad wind conditions at 900 or else she would have beat me again.


    I do not think any more boxes will come for a while. PSE is running their shop 24 hours a day and running the assembly line 6 days a week trying to meet the demand. Estimated backlog is anywhere from 2-6 weeks. Another box that might come in March or April is from Trophy Ridge and is not even in production yet, so I expect I will be one of the first people to try it.
     
  7. SouthTXBowhunter

    SouthTXBowhunter Well-Known Member

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    Hey there fellas!

    I see y'all are using lighted pins and I'm wondering if y'all have ever tried one of TruGlo's TFO (tritium) pins instead? I used to use high end sights (Extreme, Trophy Ridge, etc.) with a battery powered light to light multiple pins but I've found that using a single tritium pin on a inexpensive TruGlo or Deadnuts sight is actually FAR more effective for me. It stays perfectly lit for up to 5 years and is JUST bright enough and not TOO bright.

    I'm too new to know how y'all hunt for hogs, but here in South Texas we will spot and stalk them ALL night long from the time the moon is half-full through a day or two after the full moon. We don't use any sort of flashlights or beams- nothing more than moonlight- and we can stalk within several yards of them sometimes. We never have to shoot more than about 25 yards and I've shot a lot of big (180-200 lb+) hogs as close as 10 feet. So, we've never had any use for multiple pins. For me, they just seem to get in the way of my sight picture.

    How do y'all hunt for hogs? Do you stand-hunt them, spot and stalk? Are you hunting at night or in the day only?

    I am shooting a Mathews DXT, currently, but I'm about to switch to the new Reazon (340 FPS IBO) and the Monster (360 FPS IBO) when it's released later this month. Luckily, I hunt with a couple of the guys on the Mathews archery team and I can trade for the bows. I love high tech bows, rests, etc. but for hog hunting I like keeping my sight simple- yet effective!

    Here are some pix:

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  8. SouthTXBowhunter

    SouthTXBowhunter Well-Known Member

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    Here are a few more pix of bacon killed by myself and 2 of my hunting buddies on our regular night time spot & stalk hog hunts. We all use a single TruGlo's tritium pin and a relatively simple and inexpensive sight- they are lighter, tend to get hung up less in the brush (because they tend to be more compact) when we're stalking, less confusing because there's just one pin and if they get broken on one of these wild nights we're not nearly as mad. LOL!

    Hope y'all enjoy the pictures


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  9. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    That is interesting about stalking pigs in the dark with a bow. My impression was most people were afraid to do that.

    I was greatly undecided about whether to get a 7 pin sight or to get a HHA dial the wheel sight. I was not sure the HHA would reach out past 100 yards being as the object of the boxes is to put together a bow capable of killing an elk past 100 yards. This will require an arrow of some weight so it may be a little slow and need more travel of the sight than some sights will have. Two things made me go with the 7 pin. First is I am used to that kind of sight and second it does not require the extra motion of setting up the dial. It is kind of like the choice between a ballistic reticle and a target knob scope on a rifle. Just a little faster and less movement.

    The speed out of the new bows is just amazing. With 80% letoff it is hard to understand why people still will only shoot 20 yards at animals. 20 Yards was the standard with the old fiberglass recurves. Seems like the more progress is made the more people rush to roll the stone in front of their cave.

    To me killing an elk at 100 yards with a bow seems about like killing one at 1,000 yards with a rifle- it is a commitment to develop a level of skill to meet a difficult challenge.
     
  10. SouthTXBowhunter

    SouthTXBowhunter Well-Known Member

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    I personally like getting in close- to me the challenge is being able to get that close to a big, smart old hog that has really keen senses. To get that close on a stalk, with the kind of cover we have in South Texas, it's only really possible in the dark and even with moonlight, it's nearly impossible to make a consistently good shot over 20-25 yards. It's not nearly as dangerous as a lot of people think to get REALLY close to a wild boar- they are not interested in charging you unless they are forced to; contrary to what they show on those ridiculous "Ragin' Boars" videos. Nonetheless, when you draw on a 300+ pound boar, with 5 inch tusks, from inside 10 yards IT'S A RUSH! One that's more exciting than ANY type of hunting I've ever done. That's one reason why I'm heading to Maine in August to an outfitter that specializes in hunting bear on the ground. Myself and 2 of my best hog-stalking buddies are going to do our best to get "up close and personal" with some big black bears!

    As for extreme range bowhunting- I can tell you the reason why most people won't do it. They don't think it's ethical. Now, if that's what you're into- more power to you! I'm not judging any man's personal ethics, but here are the reason's why most bowhunters find extreme range (over 70-80 yards):

    1. There are very few people that can be consistently accurate at that range. I shoot and hunt with several members of the Mathews Archery team and one member of the US Olympic archery team and none of them shoots out to 100 yards and none of them make hunting shots out past 75 yards; and they are some of the very best archers in the country, if not in the world- their records prove it. They certainly have the "commitment" to learn to make 100+ yard shots consistently- if it were really possible. Not every "Challenge" can be met with pure commitment- it's dependent on the equipment available.

    2. Animals have too fast a reaction time to guarantee shot placement. I have shot deer with a 300+ FPS bow at 20 yards, that have been able to duck fast enough for the arrow to pass over their back! Any bowhunter who's been doing it for a while has had this happen to them- or, at least, have the shot impact SIGNIFICANTLY high because of the deer's movement. At ranges around 100 yards, even with a fast bow, have as long as 1.5 seconds to react; and even an elk can move quicker than that. Since no man can PREDICT where an animal will move after pulling a trigger on a bow, there's no way to compensate for the movement. Most bowhunters are concerned with making an accurate shot and making every effort to harvest the animal with a shot that will put the animal down quickly and painlessly. I can't see how this mantra could be followed with an extreme range shot from a bow.

    In my opinion, drawing a connection between LR hunting with a rifle and a bullet (travelling faster than sound) and long range bowhunting is ludicrous. No offense meant, but a better comparison would be to compare LR bowhunting to handing a shooting novice a perfect LR rifle and telling him to shoot an elk from the standing position at 600 yards. He'd have a MUCH better chance of making a good shot on a regular basis. It's one thing to shoot a supersonic projectile at a distant animal from a rested position with a magnified scope. It's a COMPLETELY different thing to stand up and shoot an unsupported bow (held up with one arm) with a peep sight that's not really much better than the sight on a BB gun, to shoot a (relatively) super-SUBsonic arrow at an animal that's within easy spotting range.

    I work for one of Texas' biggest bowhunting ranches and we have over 1000 hunters at the ranch annually (we have year-round hunting) and we have a terrible problem with people trying to shoot animals at even 50-60 yards. Nearly every animal that is taken with a shot over 40 yards requires extensive tracking. Now, we have hunters of ALL skill levels- from professional hunters filming for TV and video to rank amateurs; but this same problem exists for the "pros" who try and shoot at long ranges. Luckily, most of the professional hunters limit their shots to within 40-45 yards, WHENEVER possible; and only take really long shots when they absolutely HAVE to. I've never heard of any of them taking anything like a 100 yard shot at an animal, much less any further. Even with these guys, the subject of hunters trying to take shot's that are too far is a common topic of conversation. And every year we find numerous animals, far too late, that died a slow and painful death as a result of people taking irresponsible shots that were simply too far.

    As I said initially, I'm not trying to judge your ethics- every man has to decide for himself. I am, however, trying to address your question about why people still shoot bows at a close distance.

    Most bowhunters I've heard don't see the advancements in speed and power as an impetus to push shooting distance; but, rather, as an impetus to try and make more ethical shots on animals. ALL hunters are under attack these days from the left and one of our best defences is "ethical hunting." The fact is, in spite of the high-tech nature of modern compound bows, the farther the shot the less likely a person is to make a good shot and the less likely the animal is to go down quickly and painlessly. This is simply more fodder for the canons of the anti-hunting left. Even the manufacturers don't tout their bows' abilities to make shots out at the 100 yard range- they tout the bows' ability to more effectively execute the kind of shots typically made by bowhunters. Maybe when, and if, bows get up over 1200 FPS people will start advocating bowhunting out to extreme ranges; but we're not there yet.

    One of the things that seems to draw so many people to bowhunting in the first place is the "up close and personal" nature of the sport; and the "commitment" it takes to learn to be stealthy enough to get within traditional bow range is certainly, comparable to the level of commitment it takes to become accurate with a bow. It just seems counter-intuitive to get into bowhunting with the intention of shooting as far as you can. It's about like getting a .338 Lapua with a Nightforce long range scope and building handloads when you want to go quail hunting. It's not that it can't be done (it can) but some tools, like a shotgun, are simply more appropriate for the situation.

    However, we all have our own quirks and get jazzed up with our own challenges. So, if you want to bowhunt at long range, have at it! I wish you all the luck in the world.
     
  11. Ol'Gator

    Ol'Gator Well-Known Member

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    All good points. What's nice about shooting foam 60 yards and beyond, you can count on it still being in the same spot when the arrow arrives.
     
  12. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    If you spend some time on this forum and actually decide to be serious about long range hunting with a rifle you will learn one of the most important things in a ballistic chart is Time of Travel. I never print out a hunting chart without Time of Travel. On the other hand I never print out a hunting chart with energy on it because it is a useless piece of drivel. Travel times over one second are not uncommon and some of them get up to a second and a half. If you consider that a few people have killed elk beyond the 2K mark then you get into TOT of 2-3 seconds. So it does not really matter whether you launch a bullet or an arrow, you simply have to know enough about the animal to understand when it is going to be still and when it is going to move. If you have no judgment about animal behavior then you have no business at long range with either a rifle or a bow.

    The longest shot I have made to date is 60 yards on a small whitetail buck standing still. On running deer, the best shot I ever made was 40 yards. Those shots were made about 25 years ago. My hunting partner using the same exact equipment, except in right hand, killed a mule deer buck at 70 yards. In a quarter of a century, the equipment available for bowhunting has improved just about as much as the equipment for long range rifle hunting which I was also doing back then. We were shooting fingers, Flippers and Berger buttons, Easton aluminum shafts with Wasps, cat whiskers, and metal pins and bows had 50% letoff and we were holding 35 pounds with no wall. Plus there were no lazer rangefinders back then (we actually had to know what we were doing because there was no electronic gizmos to take the skill out of the shot).

    So in opinion, 60-70 yards were very good shots with the equipment we were using 25-30 years ago.
     
  13. Ol'Gator

    Ol'Gator Well-Known Member

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    Buffalobob, after reading your last post, I wanted to be clear I was refering to my shortcomings as a long range bow hunter. Those of you who put serious work into extending your range while hunting have my admiration. I've seen too many time where calling unethical what can be accomplished by some because it goes beyond our capabilities.

    I wish you great success and will follow along with your posts on this subject. I'm sure to learn a lot.

    Bob