Not enough neck tension

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by arrow, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. arrow

    arrow Well-Known Member

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    Just got done annealing my 300 win mag brass for the first time for this rifle after the third firing. Using the templac on the inside of the neck it would burn up at about 10 seconds. About a second and a half after I would first notice the full red glow. I loaded some up and shot them. They shoot great as always. Great like 1410 yards first round impact and 6 more shots directly after on a 15" steel plate. So the accuracy is fine. I have my 100 pieces of brass sorted so half take .334 bushing and the other half take a .335" bushing. The shooting I was talking about we're the lot with the .334" bushing. Today I loaded the .335" lot and noticed how little resistance there was seating bullets. After a couple I tested the tension by pulling and twisting on a bullet and it was very loose. I pulled those bullets, resized the necks with the .334" bushing seated bullets. It was a little more resistance. I twisted the bullet in the casing and it moved. It was tighter than the .335 bushing but still moved. I tested a bullet from the other lot that was shooting alright and sure enough it would move too.

    A couple things I can think of, let me know which you think or if its something else. Did I over anneal it and there is no elasticity left? Does brass grow thinner at the neck with each firing and I need to drop down in bushing size? Does air temperature have to do with it? By steel wooling the outside of the neck before loading actually take off a little material?

    If I would have to guess I would say I over annealed it. If so is it unsafe to shoot? I was heating just the necks and quenching in water after. If so, how does it still shoot so well?

    Thanks for the help.
     
  2. greggc1960

    greggc1960 Well-Known Member

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    Just curious...what is templac? Is that some kind of temp indicator ? I never bring my brass to red hot...just till the temp line ( a bluish line from the heat )moves down about halfway down the case, and it does' nt take long, and then I let the case cool to ambient by itself. Heating to red hot and quenching is a hardening process, in my expieriance. Dont take offense, I mean none, but if I shot like you are, I 'm not sure I would change ANYTHING I was doing! You know, if it aint broke, dont fix it kinda thing. Do you single fire, or fill your magazine ? Shucks, like I said, if it aint broke....
    P.S. Steel wool is harder than brass, so, yes, it cuts the brass. I am not sure if it would remove enough to get concerned about, but I sure like the look and feel of my brass after I buff it up with the wool. Maybe I will get to learn something here...anybody got any thoughts on this?
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013

  3. cummin_un_glued

    cummin_un_glued Well-Known Member

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    have you had to trim the brass? sounds like you just need a smaller bushing because the neck has thinned
     
  4. arrow

    arrow Well-Known Member

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    Does that happen? Do necks just thin after multiple firings? I trimmed my brass uniform when they were virgin but haven't since. They were pretty short for my chamber so trying to grow them out. Is it possible that 10 seconds in a 1" propain flame is too much for a 300 win mag spinning in a socket? That was repeatedly how long it took for the templac 750 (or 700 can't remember right now) to burn off from inside the neck and about a second and a half after I first started o notice the neck barely turning cherry. Thanks
     
  5. arrow

    arrow Well-Known Member

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    Single fire. I have a mag but when target shooting just single shot so I don't scratch the brass. If I were to feed these through the mag I would imagine it would push these bullets deeper into the case. Hope I can figure this out. Thanks guys.
     
  6. kaseyfied

    kaseyfied Well-Known Member

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    you anneal before any resizing is done correct?? or do u resize.. then anneal?? I haven't had any problems when I have annealed brass for the 280 lately.. I just deprime... clean in the sonic cleaner.. then anneal.. then I resize the brass and load some bullets!!!

    kasey
     
  7. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    I anneal for about 5 1/2 seconds in a propane flame while spinning the case in a battery powered drill. You may have overdone it. I bought the 650F Tempilaq. And the Templilaq is supposed to melt at the indicated temperature - not burn off or away. You could try bushing down another 0.001 and see if the case mouth holds the bullets. If not, you over-annealed, IMO. Doesn't make the case dangerous to use as far as I know, but the bullets may not stay seated and your groups or POI could change a little.
     
  8. Edd

    Edd Well-Known Member

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    If you heated your brass until it glowed red, it is ruined.
     
  9. arrow

    arrow Well-Known Member

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    Update. Today I tried fl resizing a piece of scrap brass that was annealed the same way. It is a different brand, I don't know if that makes a difference. But after fl resizing there was plenty neck tension. Do I just need to go to a smaller bushing? Why would a .002" smaller bushing work in the past but not now? I miced the necks of the .335" lot again and they are still .337 with a bullet in.
     
  10. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    Getting the case necks too hot will reduce the elasticity of the brass. The case neck will be soft such as to deform more easily and the tensile strength is reduced. The case neck will deform easily compared to healthy case necks.

    If you've dropped down 0.002" in bushing size and the case necks still won't hold bullets, then that's a pretty certain sign you over-heated the brass case necks. The case necks will expand when the bullets are seated with little force on the press handle, and the bullets won't be held tightly because the brass has no tensile strength to hold the bullets under tension.

    Hope you can salvage them, but it doesn't sound good, based on your descriptions.
     
  11. arrow

    arrow Well-Known Member

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    Is it alright to shoot until I get new brass?
     
  12. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    If you make sure the bullets don't fall out, or pull out, and you load them single shot style so the bullets don't compress under recoil in the magazine, I don't believe there are safety issues associated with the use of the cases. You said you only annealed the necks, so the case head and body should be fine. It sounded like you were still using them, no?
     
  13. Welderboy250

    Welderboy250 Well-Known Member

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    I would guess it is still safe as long as the web and head area were not annealed any in the process. It's very important that the blued area of the case does not go down the body too far. Of course I'm no expert so don't rely only on what I say. The other thing I may add is that it should harden back up with use and after a few firings u will be back to using your larger neck bushings again.
     
  14. TheFishBox

    TheFishBox Well-Known Member

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    after you shoot them a couple times the brass should work harden I would think and you would have plenty of tension if the bullets aren't falling out just shoot them as single shots.