Nosler - REM brass data point.

Discussion in 'Equipment Discussions' started by royinidaho, Aug 10, 2007.

  1. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Was messing around this morning in pressure ranges that I shouldn't have:rolleyes:

    300 RUM cases in 270 AM

    Here's what I discovered:

    Nosler brass will blow primers before case extraction requires a small tool to extract the case from the chamber after the bolt is lifted by hand.

    Remington brass requires a small tool to extract the case from the chamber after the bolt is lifted by hand but with greater force than is necessary for the Nosler brass (bolt lift, that is)

    Only three 3 shots :eek:

    FWIW
     
  2. philny1

    philny1 Well-Known Member

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    small tool

    Hi Roy
    Would you describe your small tool. Could you have done this three shot brass test without it. Just when I thought I had everything. Do you feel this something all LRHs should have on hand. Post some pics.
    Thanks
    Phil
     

  3. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Small Tool: Any solid object close at hand that is not a rock. Rocks will work but are hard on bolt handles.

    This tool should not be needed by any LRH shooter. Loads should have been more appropriately developed. Plus it makes that second shot, if needed a real pain.:eek:


    PS on the first post. The case head expands enough that the bolt has to be removed to leverage the case out of the bolt face (Sako extractor). Again this is with opening the bolt and pulling it back w/nothing but the hand.:confused:
     
  4. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    A big roll of duct tape will work as a good hammer and doesn't mar nor scratch anything.;)
     
  5. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    i remember hitting on the bolt handle with my hand last year and it came right up. only problem was the bolt never rotated. smith said it was a very poor solder job from the factory.
     
  6. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Musta been one of those Remingtons:rolleyes:
     
  7. magicofmt

    magicofmt Well-Known Member

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    What powder and how many grains were getting into that much pressure. I also am loading for the 270AM with Nosler brass and Kirby said I better start 3 gr lower than normal REM brass???
     
  8. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Send me an email at roy@randaenterprises.com and I'll forward the emails between Kirby and I which will explain the whole thing.

    The Nosler brass was in no way responsible for the problem.

    See my post under allen mag shooters group.

    I would rather have any public explanation made by Kirby. He's pretty clear with his explanations.
     
  9. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    I'm getting more down as I go on Nosler brass.

    I'm beginning to wonder if Nosler brass will be satisifactory in in any of the extreme cartridges.

    Getting ready for another range test today.

    The test will be to fire 3 loads in each of Nosler and Remington cases.
    I'll shoot on two targets alternating loads w/shots 1, 3, 5 w/one brass and 2, 4, 6 with the other. I've found that process to be very revealing when comparing loads.

    Notes:

    Nosler case weight = 278 +/- .1grain (That's pretty much for the whole 50)
    Remington case weight = 273.3 grains (only ones I have left that are virgin) If I recall correctly they were the cases that were on the high end of the case weight range.

    Neck thicknesses: Measured with vernier dial calipers and new glasses;)

    Nosler 300 Rum resized to 270 AM neck thickness = 0.014"
    Rem 7mm RUM resized to 270 AM neck thickness = 0.0187"

    Loads will be iced in the cooler.
    Base to Ogive length = 3.019"
    COL = 3.6"
    Distance = 200yds
    All shots chono'd
    Bullets: 195 RBBTs
    Nosler Load will be 92.5gr US 869 as 93gr resulted in a bit of bolt lift resistance and the proverbial shiny spot on the case head. 94gr was worse.
    Remington load will be 94gr US 869.

    We'll see how this turns out.


    PS: completed loading the test loads. Neck tension "by feel" of the Noslers is "i'd say" less than half of that of the Rem cases. From the numbers above somebody can calculate neck tension in inches......
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2007
  10. NYLES

    NYLES Well-Known Member

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    This will be interestin...Roy dont tear nothin up! cept the target!
     
  11. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Summary of the above described test.

    I wasn't able to do all that I wanted. Groups with both cases were uncharacteristly LARGE for the rifle. Some targets had only 1 or two hits out of 3 shots.

    I tore the rifle apart. There were no loose screws, scope or other wise. The AM amazed me again in that when I put it back together it held the previous point of aim.

    One thing I did notice was that my drop tube wasn't matching up with the case mouth properly.:mad: I kept hearing a bit of a noise when moving the funnel to the next case. Turns out I was loosing 0.5gr +/- each load. That pretty much disqualified any but general chrono statistics.

    94.5 gr US 869 is a decent load for the REM cases. Just under 3100.
    92.5 br US 869 is a bit too warm for the Nosler cases. Velocity 50-60 fps greater than the REM case load.

    In every instance the Nosler cases exhibited some bolt lift pressure.

    Nosler primer pocket seating pressure reduced by ~50% with each shot. I'd guess that after 4 shots or so, the thumb would be all that's necessary to seat primers.

    Rem cases primer pockets open a bit but it wasn't anything near what the Noslers did.

    I've loaded to 97 grains of 869 w/o any pressure problems and was shooting 1/4 MOA out to 500 Meters. Today groups were measured by a hammer handle.:(

    Here's the deal breaker on the Nosler cases.

    All cases were kept submersed in an ice bath right up until the time of shooting while contained in a zip lock bag. It wasn't long until the bag didn't seal and water got in on the cartridges. I figured hey, no biggie.

    Recall that I've mentioned that the sizer button does not touch the inside of the neck during resizing? The Rem cases present quite a bit of friction during this stage of the process.

    Well I had a cartridge that didn't fire when the trigger was pulled.:confused::rolleyes: I pulled the bullet and the powder was wet. I don't know if it entered through the primer pocket or the case mouth. There was plenty of wet powder in the case.

    I would consider that as a show stopper as far as hunting with them in my rifle.

    Summary of the summary:

    Nosler cases achieve higher pressure w/maybe 3gr less US 869 than Rem cases with a lot more deformation and resizing pressure required.

    The necks are really thin.

    Neck tension is way low. If the bullet touches the end of the chamber at all, and is not fired the only thing preventing the 195 RBBT from being removed when the bolt is opened is the bump on the back of of the bullet.

    They may leak - at least with my dies and chamber.

    Conclusion:

    I have 30 fire formed and 20 ready to fire form with 3 ruined. What's brass going for on the recycle market:rolleyes:
     
  12. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    My final post on this thread!

    Went back to Rem brass, 93 gr US 869, 195 RBBTs seated to tough the leade, or whatever that transition between chamber and rifling is called (just leaves a slight mark all the way around the bullet).

    3 shots, 1/2 MOA @ 200 yds. Not quite as good as most times but after yesterdays activities I'm back in the confidence zone.

    Now to thwack the 1200 yd gong a couple of times and its time to do some scouting.
     
  13. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    Roy, just take ole "pink"
     
  14. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Gonna take 'em both;)