Nosler MZ bullets

Discussion in 'Muzzleloader Hunting' started by FrontierGander, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. FrontierGander

    FrontierGander Well-Known Member

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    Traditions Strikerfire with 100gr Blackhorn209, CCI 209 M primers and headed to the 50 yard range to see how the load would perform.

    Pros - Outstanding accuracy!
    Cons - Unloadable unless I carry my range rod with me into the field.
    Cons - Pedals rip off of the sabots after firing.
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  2. FrontierGander

    FrontierGander Well-Known Member

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    I tried out the 300gr Nosler MZ with 100 grains blackhorn209 out of my Strikerfire at 50 yards. Awesome mushroom and the copper jacket IS a true jacket as it is very thick and peels back like a barnes.

    Recovery weight is so so. Sand is tougher than flesh but gives you a decent idea. Next time I can use a wetter sand which should give more realistic results.

    143 grains main body weight, add in the fragments I found around the bullet and it totals 220 grains.

    The copper jacket though is very impressive, especially for the cheap price of the bullets.
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  3. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    That's a decent looking bullet but, breaking into pieces is something I don't care for. It would be interesting to see the results if shot through wet phone books or ballistic gelatin.

    Petals breaking off after leaving the barrel can happen with many other bullets and sabot combinations.
     
  4. a1smokepole

    a1smokepole Active Member

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    Petals breaking off is normal for some sabots and in your pic they look good but what about the base of the sabot what do they look like.
     
  5. Red Sparky

    Red Sparky Well-Known Member

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    The only time I had petals breaking off was when I was not using high pressure sabots. Apparently I bought a bag of 100 when I was using 240 grain XTP's for deer hunting, cheaper to buy a box of bullets and a bag of sabots. Found out to make sure to get high pressure sabots and maybe Nosler didn't do that.
     
  6. rickster308

    rickster308 Well-Known Member

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    Petals breaking or shearing off is not really a problem. That usually occurs after it exits the bore and at that point the job it was intended for is over. A sabot is supposed to provide a tight fit between the numerous differences in actual bore diameter from manufacturer to manufacturer and even gun to gun from the same builder. It is there to first make a seal of the expanding gases to propel the bullet forward and second to engage the rifling and get both the sabot and encased bullet spinning. As the experts say all sabots are HIGH PRESSURE as that is the conditions that they are subjected. That said I would lose any sleep over what you are seeing on the ground. It is was you are seeing on the target. If there is no indication of "keyholeing" i.e., the bullet tumbling and the accuracy is there, you have no worries. The harder a sabot/bullet combination is to load the more likely you are to see smaller groups. The trick is to find something that loads with manageable ease and still gives the desired accuracy. If a given combo loads real easy I can assure they will not shoot all that well. One thing to remember is barrel heat is the most common killer of sabot failure and poor groups. If you shoot/load to fast you absolutely will compromise the integrity of the sabot. If your barrel is warm to the touch little lone hot to the touch you need to wait. A sabot is plastic and it doesn't take much to soften one and it will not preform as intended. Lay one in the sun on a warm day and compare to one that was kept in the shade and you will get a good grasp of the difference. I shoot smokeless and these issues are even more pronounced because of the additional pressure and heat. That is why more advanced shooters use barrel cooling devices and some move to a higher level and shoot sabotless. I have been in your shoes and had to back off on the powder or find another sabot/bullet combo that will load reasonably so it is user friendly in the field allowing for followup/multiple shots. There are several places that now cater to this kby selling sample packs of bullets and sabots to try with minimal investment. If I can help you get hooked up let me know. Rickster
     
  7. Nomosendero

    Nomosendero Well-Known Member

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    Rickster, good post!
    I agree, I look at the target, that's what counts.
    I may try some of these in my Encore which has a Bergara tube as it seems to be a little loose with some sabots.
     
  8. rickster308

    rickster308 Well-Known Member

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    When I have been experimenting and load a combo that is loose and "falls" down the barrel they usually shoot very poorly. I have had some some hit the ground 3' below the target. When I have one that loads "tighter" than the others it will often be a flier a flier a bit high that opens up the group. I used to attribute that to the bore getting fouled up on the black powder guns and some times I am sure it was. But what I have learned since getting into smokeless is that it happens there as well and the bore is not fouled up. In visiting with a gentleman who works in the muzzleloader business I learned that there is a difference in the sabots within a given bag. They are produced in a large mold that makes a number of them at a time. Some of them have different numbers in the base that indicates the position that particular one was in mold. There can and often times is enough difference between them to show up in the amount of loading pressure it takes to seat things and subsequently how the group shoots. If you sort them out by the number imprinted on the base it does make a difference. I think this attributes to why most shooters see more consistent groups and more consistent loading with the Harvester crush ribs and any of the shorter sabots. You couple that with the longer bullets which have a lower bearing surface and it equates to easier loading. I have now assembled 8 different sabots and as many different bullets and will running those through my Savage and I will post what I find.
     
  9. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    I don't shoot Nosler and instead shoot Barnes.

    I seat the bullet with an average of 106#fpf and it maintains accuracy and groups, throughout hundreds of bullet/sabots.
     
  10. rickster308

    rickster308 Well-Known Member

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    I have been shooting the 290gr Barnes expander and they work very well in the Savage. The groups are acceptable for distances they are effective. I shoot the 250gr Hornady SST's exclusively in the black powder guns and have been pleased with them. The Barnes are better in my opinion when it comes to dropping deer. The Expanders mushroom as advertised and a blind man could follow the blood trail. I am going to try the Barnes original and the TEZ first. My understanding is that the TEZ is an Expander with a plastic tip to improve the BC. If they fly good there is no doubting about how they preform once they get there. I am looking to extend my effective range as I live/hunt in wide open country. If I was satisfied with a 100-200 yard load I wouldn't be inclined to move away from the Barnes Expanders as they flat out work. I have assembled some of the more exotic bullets from, Parker, Harvester and Dead Center and it will be fun to see how it goes. For now my go to load in the Savage is the Winchester 209, 44grs. of 5744 and the 2909 Barnes Expander. So far my Savage has preferred the heavier bullets over the 250's. My other guns all like the 250's best and I have found that the SST's work well across the board in a variety of guns. Which makes sense given the difference in twist rates from the Savage to then others. I have only taken 3 deer with the Barnes, which is far fewer than I have with the SST's but what I have seen so far is that the Barnes are significantly better at sealing the deal.
     
  11. ENCORE

    ENCORE Well-Known Member

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    I had at one time wanted to try the Nosler just to say I did it but, after seeing these photos and fragments, I'll remain with Barnes. I can't and won't deal with a bullet that separates and fragments or, doesn't perform flawlessly. Although the SST and Shockwaves are accurate, they have to many problems to be considered reliable IMO. I've witnessed to many SST and shockwaves just pencil through or shatter.
     
  12. rickster308

    rickster308 Well-Known Member

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    I have had decent results with the SST's but have yet to recover one because they all were inside of 150 yards and where clean pass throughs. Most of them went down within a few yards and a few dropped in their tracks. I did have one make it 50 yards and over the neighbors fence. All where in plain sight due to our terrain. So far with the Barnes one went about 20 yards, another dropped in it's tracks and the third went about 60 yards because I hit it a bit back. All of them had massive internal damage, a large exit hole and the blood trail was more like a blood path. The one that went 60 yards bleed for the first 40 yards then nothing as the tank was empty. I don't know she went as far as she did, but after field dressing it was apparent the Barnes had done what it was allowed to do. Any question in performance would have to lay with my shooting and not the bullet on that one. All of them where taken under 75 yards and where complete pass throughs, but unlike the SST's the exit hole and blood trail where all you could ask for. If the Barnes TEZ's (same as the expander with the ballistic tip) load and shoot well it would be hard to consider anything else as they no doubt do the job on our large whitetail.