Nosler BT vs Berger VLD ???

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by .25AOD, Mar 26, 2007.

  1. .25AOD

    .25AOD Well-Known Member

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    I have been shooting the Nosler Ballistic Tip since I started handloading nearly 20 years ago, recently however I've started shooting the Berger 115 VLD out of my 25-06 AI. My question is more on the terminal side... I think we all know the Berger is more accurate and has a noticeable external ballistic advantage.

    I was reading an old post (2002) on another forum written by Mr. Kirby Allen (fiftydriver) on Nosler BT performance vs. the Partition. You remember this Mr. Allen? To paraphrase it was an endorsment of the relitive toughness of the BT. It's hard to debate the merits of the Partition... but several incidences were sited validating the BT as an excellent game bullet in its own right. I love the performance aspect of the Hunting BTs (100 and 115 in .25 Cal.)... to that there is no question, and the post even spoke of your wife shooting a mature Mule Deer at just over 200 yds with the 100 grainer out of a 25-06 with devistating results. I'd like to know what you think of the Berger 115 VLD and the Wildcat 125 RBBT in comparison of terminal performance vs. the 100/115 Nosler BT.

    I was a bit unsure how the 100 would fair on solid targets at around 3600fps (63gr RE-25) so I taped two Seattle Metro phone books together and shot them at 200 yds... as you can see from the picture, I'm not too worried. I could put my fist through the back half of the 2nd phone book... don't think a critter would make it too far with a hole like that through both lungs!!

    [​IMG]

    I'm looking to shoot out to about 500 on deer/'lope sized critters and maybe a bit further on coyotes. The Higher BC would help... but it's not on the top of my priority list. I want a bullet that is:
    #1- acceptably accurate (.5-.75 MOA)
    #2- anchors game quickly and with authority
    #3- has a BC in the .425-450 range (better is obviously, well... better!)

    Should I keep shooting the BT... or is one of the "better moustraps" actually better?
     

  2. dwm

    dwm Well-Known Member

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    Have you considered the: 110 gr Nosler AccuBond?

    Ballistic Coefficient: .418
    Sectional Density: .238

    Not quite a high enough BC for your requirements, but makes a great alternative to the BT.

    They shoot good for me ...

    I am interested in what everyone will say about your actual question on the 115 Bergers and the Wildcat 125 RBBT too ...

    Doug

    I would like Nosler to make a 120+ gr 25 cal Accubond.
     

  3. .25AOD

    .25AOD Well-Known Member

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    I've shot the AB... but my rifle prefers the BT for some reason. Maybe it's just psycho-sematic, but I just can't get the Accu-Bond to shoot under 1.5" at 200. The BTs (both the 100 @ 3600, and the 115 @ 3350) shoot sub 1" groups at 200.
     
  4. dwm

    dwm Well-Known Member

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    My 25-06 loves the BTs too, but it will shoot the Accubonds just as well. I leave the seating die in the same spot and just adjust the amount of H4831SC for the 85, 100, 115 BTs and the 110 Accubond.
     
  5. Rooster 50

    Rooster 50 Member

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    I also shoot a 25-06 AI probably my best shooter with 85gr BT's with 54.5gr IMR 4350. Eventually I moved the throat out so far that I had to move up the 100's.with the same load. I am no where near the speed you are getting with the 63gr of reloader 25. If I may ask where did you get that load. Iwould like to try working up something in that speed range and see if I can keep the incredible accuracy I've enjoyed with this rifle. It has shot groups as low as .125 with both bullets, and is always around .250 or better. Not bad for a cheap Savage 112BVSS
    By the way I have tried the Bergers but at the time did not know they needed to be jammed in the lands so they didn't shoot all that well.

    The one thing I will disagree on is using nosler BT's for hunting big game, they were never designed for that application, in fact they have done terrible damage on Elk for me in the form of surface wounds that simply maimed but did not kill. The accubond on the other hand has performed very well on everything from antelope to Elk for me and others I have helped to load them.
     
  6. .25AOD

    .25AOD Well-Known Member

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    Oh contrare, on the BTs not for Big Game!! The 85 grain .25 was designed for varmints... thinner jacket and pure lead core. The 100 and 115 have a much thicker jacket and a lead/antimony mix core. They are much, much tougher than the varmint BTs.

    As far as the RE-25 load goes... I was shooting 60 grains of RE-22 behind the 100 grainer and 63 grains of RE-22 behind the 85. RE-22 gave me just a shade over 3500 with my 26" Douglas pipe. Honestly, 63 grains was just an educated guess. I looked at a lot of data for many cartridges and the increase from the RE-22 load to the RE-25 load for the same bullet in '06 or SAUM (.280 AI, 7 SAUM, .300 SAUM, 30-06, 6.5-06, etc.)cases averaged +5%... so 60gr. x 1.05 = 63 gr. That's how I ended up at 63 grains. I think the load isn't quite as warm as the RE-22 load, yet it shows great velocity. I'm really tempted to go to the 115 Ballistic Silver-Tip for a box or two. I'm fairly certain that I can get right around 3400 with .5 MOA accuracy... I think that'll be the best of both worlds. I have some 125 Wildcats on order, although it may be a while before they arrive so the 115s may get a run in the mean-time.

    P.S... I second that on the 125 Accu-Bond, that would be one bad motha'!!!!
     
  7. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Writers Guild

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    The 115 grain Berger is a great long range big game bullet as is the Nosler BT. Both are not designed for close range shots with big magnums and in fact, the nosler manual has always had a discliamer in it that the BT's should be used for longer range shots but nobody reads anymore. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  8. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    I would stick with the 115g NBT. Its a good alternative. I have shot plenty of mule deer through the shoulders, not lungs, and have never had any problems with the bullet not making it through the other side. My shots have been usually 200 yards and more which is where the NBT starts to shine. They were never meant for close shots, they work great for the longer ones though. I"ve used the 115g NBT to take a muley at 604 yards and a couple in the 500 range. It always made a mess of things and they usually went down pretty quick. This was coming out of a 25-06 at 3100fps as well.

    I haven't tried the berger VLD 115g. Its on my list of bullets to try, just haven't got around to it. I have shot a box of the 125g ULD RBBT's and they are very accurate, but dont give exactly the same terminal performance as btips. Btips start to expand right away, while I have found the ULD's to start to expand about 3-4" into the media. This was found true with Berger VLD's as well. Once they start to expand though, the channel is quite large. However, on deer, I prefer the quick expansion a ballistic tip delivers. It always results in a pretty quick kill. And when used properly within there parameters, they can break shoulders on deer no problems and keep on going to the next country side.
     
  9. Rooster 50

    Rooster 50 Member

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    I am not critizing anyone else for using Nosler BT's for hunting I am just saying I will never use them again. I lost over 40lbs of meat off a cow Elk that I shot at 200yds with a 180gr Ballistic Silvertip out of my 30-06. Worst part was how much she suffered before I reached her for the finishing shot.

    Thanks for the load can't wait to try it.
     
  10. Jerry Ricker

    Jerry Ricker Well-Known Member

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    I have also used the BT's and liked them, then I tried the 115 VLD's and I've shot nothing else since and probably won't. Pushing them from a 26" 25-06 at 3200fps, 1/2moa or better if I try hard enough. Devastating on varmints and critters, I got a groundhog today after work at 426 yd with this load, extremely accurate with great terminal ballistics. Haven't had the opportunity to try these on game but after hunting with VLD's in 30 caliber I'm confident they'll do just fine.