Nightforce reticle. Velocity or npr1

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by jackin brass, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. jackin brass

    jackin brass Member

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    I'm looking at a 22x nxs z-stop, going on a custom 700 300rum. The gun will be 70 % long range hunting and the rest long range play ( around a grand). I don't have a load that I just love yet, but pretty sure I'm gonna stay 180 gr. if I found my load should I look at the 1000 velocity recticle or go with something like the npr1 so I could switch things up time to time. From what I've read the velocity is pretty sweet but with a wife and kid only get one shot at buying one can't just switch it up if I don't like it. Any feedback would be handy. Thanks
     
  2. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    I have NF scopes with both Reticle styles. One has the 2.5x10HV, the other a 5.5x22 with NP2. It really comes down to personal preference. My experience having used my NF as well as other calibrated reticles has been that they work well, even with changes in altitude, temp, etc, out to around 500-600 yards. I mounted this scope on my sporter weight rifle used for hunting where I expect my longest shots to be 500 yards or less. The set up is light, fast and very accurate. A factor to keep in mind is that the ballistic reticles are calibrated for a specific scope power. I went with the lower power because 22x was too high for my general hunting. Beyond 500 yards I prefer to use the turret and specific drop data for the conditions. But I hunt in different locations during hunting season. While you can be very successful going to longer ranges with a Reticle, you have to be a lot more conscious of conditions that could effect POI. If I could only to go with one for all my shooting, I would likely go with the Np 1 or 2 in the 5.5 x 22. I would also get a couple of BDC turrets for my favorite long range hunting locations. At shorter ranges and varied conditions, the same BDC turrets would work and I would be able to make scope magnification changes to suit the situation. I have found that ballistic turrets are just as fast as a Reticle and can be fine tuned with a few clicks if necessary.
     

  3. jackin brass

    jackin brass Member

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    DoEs nightforce offer the ballistic turrents
     
  4. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    No. But they can be bought from Kenton Industries. for about $100 each.
     
  5. jackin brass

    jackin brass Member

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    Thanks for the info
     
  6. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    Easy choice--NPR1. An MOA reticle will serve you much better in the long run. NF also makes combo ballistics turrets (MOA and yardage markings for your load in a given set of environmental conditions) for the NF made G7 Gunwerks scope. Go to gunwerks.com to see them. Perhaps you could order a NF G7 Gunwerks scope with and NPR1 reticle, I don't know.

    Why MOA? If you need to do a quick adjustment for your second shot, if your spotter understands the very easy MOA system, he can just tell you what to adjust in MOA (up, down, L or R) and you can then use the reticle to do that, precisely. With the the Velocity reticle, and any ballistic reticle, how to you make precise and quick adjustments for second shots? Even truly precise first shots using the reticle, are going to be questionable.

    Ballistic reticles are meant for the digestion of the masses who do not truly understand ballistics. And, the fact of the matter is that you really do need a ballistic computer program, such as Exbal, that have the various reticles in the software to even know where your load will hit in a given set of environmental conditions.

    Can you tell I don't like them? Like yardage marked turrets that are only good in one specific set of environmental conditions, the same is true, but on an even less precise scale for ballistic reticles. If you really delve into ballistics, turrets, reticles, etc., you will start to understand the inherently imprecise nature of yardage marked turrets and ballistic reticles. They do work, but I have always thought that that fill a market niche often (not always true, but often so) for folks that don't want to put the time into truly understanding ballistics and so find this seemingly great shortcut.

    I don't think we should be taking shortcuts when shooting game. If you really understand ballistic reticles and yardage marked turrets and their limitations and have a ballistic computer to help you adjust the ballistic reticle to differing environmental conditions, then they are fine. But I have found the folks I know with ballistic reticles, in general, don't do those things--the result is imprecise shots. All at the time when they think they've got this great long range system.

    A basic tenet of true long range hunting is to use a heavy for caliber, high BC bullet that still works well on game.

    With that in mind, you should consider shooting a bullet of at least 200g such as the 200g Accubond, 210 Berger, 208 Amax, 240 SMK,etc. Even better would be the 230g Berger. Many very experienced long range guys here will tell you that the 230g bullet is just about perfect for the size 300RUM chambering to maximize it's potential energy at long ranges. Spend a little time on a ballistic calculator and this becomes very apparent when you check energy and wind drift numbers at long range. It is very hard to convince folks, that do not really understand long range shooting, of these simple facts. Your 180g bullet will not perform nearly as well at truly long ranges in terms of retained energy or reduced wind drift as the heavier for caliber bullets mentioned above. Go for the 230g Berger and don't look back, would be my advice.

    Good luck!
     
  7. jackin brass

    jackin brass Member

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    Thanks for the input. One of the problems with the velocity recticle I was having was being married to one bullet. I think the npr1 would be my answer, especially if I decide to mount it on another gun. Thank you for your help.
     
  8. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most all your comments and fully agree with your acknowledgment that whatever approach, MOA, turret, or Reticle you must have solid ballistics information calculated for the actual conditions. But I think you leave the definite impression that reticles, and in my case a preference for turrets, are substandard approaches and designed for the microwave crowd. I have used all of them for hunting and target shooting out to 1000 yards, my effective hunting range. A calibrated turret combined with ballistics knowledge for fine tuning for current conditions, for me has proven to be the most effective long range hunting technique. I usually don't have all the time in the world for a shot for messing around with charts or calculators( I do have them with me though) , and lighting might be poor so it's difficult to see MOA scales on a turret. Time is critical and if I do have it I'd rather use it for confirmed wind doping. If I'm target shooting yes, I prefer MOA , if I'm hunting I'll take ballistic turrets that are precisely made for my hunting area and commit current condition adjustments to
    memory. I don't give up anything to an MOA system and have had good hunting success. Just an alternative viewpoint, each to their own.
     
  9. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    Like I said before, if you understand the limitations and ballistics involved, they work fine out to a certain yardage, beyond which shots with consistent precision should likely only be taken on game with MOA/MIL systems with properly calibrated ballistic computers using proven data taken from those practice shooting on paper/steel at extended ranges.

    Companies like Gunwerks and Greybull Precision use yardage marked turrets, but typically not past 1K yds, with great success. I just hope their customers do 'due diligence' and understand what's going on.
     
  10. chucknbach

    chucknbach Well-Known Member

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    I'll disagree. 1 shot 1 kills out to 550yd this season. With a light 87gn .243 with Nikon BDC reticle. Ballistic reticles are not some gimick, they fill the space between using point blank range zero and using turrents. They are very good for medium range fast shots 300 to 600 yds. Using Nikons Spot On. I know exact yardage for each point on reticle for conditions and load, prior to going out on hunt.

    I am much faster with it then using turrents at that range.

    Can't decide? Get a scope with both. Use the ballistic reticle for those fast shots and dial it when you have time.
     
  11. mike33

    mike33 Well-Known Member

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    I have 3 nfx zero stop and 4 lupys with ballistic reticle. I have one br on a 6x284 thats the loads works next to perfect the rest im thinking about selling. Main problem guns im using them on im over shooting the set hash mark say the 300 yard hash i should be using it for 350 very confusing to keep that information in your head. Remember the basics range it, click it, then send it.
     
  12. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your clarification that for extended long range shooting in excess of 1000 yards, MOA is the way to go. The OP was talking about about under 1000 yards by considering a 1000 yard ballistic Reticle. That's why I chimed in.
     
  13. extreme

    extreme Well-Known Member

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    X 2 Use the ballistic reticle for fast shots and dial when time permits