New Software Development Request

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Boss Hoss, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    This is an open request to anyone who can develop the software to develop the following application that will be beneficial to both the LR shooting community including 1K folks:

    Software that will ideally have a data base of existing bullets and the various ballistic coefficients for various speeds pre loaded however, additionally have the ability to manually input ballistic coefficients along with the perquisite velocity ranges.

    Quite simply this software will have the ability to calculate the impact point at ranges out to 1500 yards with the following variables allowed for input:

    • Muzzle Velocity in fps
    • Bullet make and type from table with manual data entry available
    • Wind Speed = mph in 1mph increments
    • Direction of wind with 12:00 o’clock being straight ahead in 30 minute increments
    • Ability to add data every 100 yards for wind direction
    • Ability to calculate for both right and left hand twist barrels
    • Variables for Elevation, Humidity % and Temperature
    • Exportable Table to Excel application and Printable from the application to show both graphically and numerically bullet path, velocity and muzzle energy in 25 - 100 yard increments up to the impact point.
    • Point blank calculation with variable target height up to 2 feet in 1 inch increments
    • Ability to overlay up to 3 different bullets or velocities to run comparative analysis

    Would love to have this at the range and in the field!
     
  2. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Seems like you're soliciting another LoadBase Schmoozle-fest...
     

  3. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Well, I guess I'll bring up Loadbase, which meets your criteria almost perfect, not 100% but....

    Loadbase has a huge library of bullets with G1 BC, SD, size, cal, and length. Along with powder, primer and cartridge info and specs. The PPC version only has loads, bullets and cartridge specs but desktop has all plus more that I won't list. The info does not load automatically to the ballistics tab, you have to input all specs manually. Info is not velocity banded so it would lack there.

    Calculates out to 3000yrds.

    Uses fps or m/s, bullet info is manual input, wind speed in 1/10ths or 1 mph increments.
    The wind direction is adjusted in degrees but I would prefer a clock style input but it's not hard to learn but it would be different than what your looking for, Loadbase allows for three wind velocity ranges that you can change the speed, direction and ranges on.

    Loadbase calculates spin drift for left and right hand twist.

    Loadbase can take all environmental data to account that you listed.

    Loadbase will export in XPS, Excel or PDF in 5-150yrd increments.

    It has a data base that you save your track and target to you can select a track and put a target to it that you have loaded. On the desktop you can have 6 tracks set up and graph them out for any kinda data you want to compare.
    So in the field, for example I have one track called 270 WSM and an object called deer so I pull them up and it give me the correction, PBR all the goods but then an elk comes in and I can pull up an elk object and pull up a 300 WBY and my dad has the shot! I also have gongs at the range loaded.

    The Desktop version has bullet modeling, BC and drag analysis, you can set it up to take powder temp into consideration if you have a temp sensitive powder, and piles of other stuff. The Log book is very good and you can upload pics to it.
    One of the best things is you can sync the desktop and PPC data so you can work things out at the desk then go to the field and validate then up load the log book data for the day and validated track to the desk top.

    For some it is to much info but it is laid out in tabs so just don't open the analyzer tab or others just open the ballistics tab and rock on. It can be as simple or complex as you want!

    Boss Hoss, thanks for the info you sent me the other day, very good stuff. I'm working on combining the mental knowledge and condition reading skills with the ballistic software solutions that I have available, your info is very good!!
    I'm not trying to pimp anything just saying there is something very close to what your looking for.
     
  4. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Thanks and I hope that the info will help you I know it does me but I had Speedy there sitting with me to show me how to do it.. Almost all of the software out there I have, Exbal, Load Form Disk etc but none has the ability to input multiple wind conditions at different ranges and to calculate the end result that I am aware of. The reason this is important is that as the bullet travels it slows and wind has different effect on a bullet at 100 yards than it does at 800 yards. Additionally the BC is different at different ranges coupled with the fact that physics what they are the 100 yard 1 inch turns into feet at 1K but inch at 900 yards.
     
  5. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    LB3.0 has the ability to enter 3 winds. However I do not see it as a fix all. I feel to be successful on first round hits it takes a ton of experience reading the wind. The ability to enter 3 or more winds, if you are not reading them correctly, is just leaving you more chances for error. I can be a lot more effective entering a single wind. I have LB3.0 but after a long field evaluation I returned to the good ole tried and true NF ( exbal) program. Lots of bells and whistles are fun at the home desk to look at, but in the field, the "Kiss" senerio comes into play big time. Just hard to beat good old experience and real world practise no matter how many pages of data entry your program has.

    Thats my honest opinion, for what its worth.

    Jeff gun)gun)
     
  6. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    Broz, I really tried to understand all your field work and the only thing I never understood is how you ended up rating Exbal better than LoadBase when there's not even comparison. Exbal is in the Neanderthal age compared to LoadBase
    For first shot precision at extreme long ranges you need capabilities than Exbal doesn't have. Folks that use Exbal and do connect have to be good guessers because Spin drift and Coriolis and gravity etc. etc. are realities you can't ignore and the longer the distance the greater the value to compensate for.

    Glad is working for you, but don't you feel something strange that you're the only one rating LoadBase as inferior?

    Respectfully,

    Eaglet.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  7. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Actually , I have since talked to several long range shooters that are well versed in tactical shooting. Some shoot to well past the 1500 yard number I typically practice within. I do not feel I should drop names but trust me that some of these shooters are very well known and respected. The conversation of Coriolis , spin drift, and wind are the basis of the conversation most of the time. What does surprise me is, that a few people on here feel that the LB3.0 is the holygrail of programs. When my finding are, that there are indeed plenty on very successful shooters using exbal that have the option and have indeed tried many programs. I am in no way implying that LB will not work. But I can truely feel good about saying it did nothing for my shooting.... nothing!! except slow me down and leave more room for erors in my input data. I am not computer guy for sure. But what I am is an avid long range shooter that shoots 2~3 times a week or more. So avid that it was a huge part of our decission to locate to Montana. I do walk the walk and only post with intentions of sharing my first hand experiences with others.

    Eaglet, Please do a bit of research for yourself as to what some of the better known shooters in the long range world are actualy using. I could be wrong but I think you might find I am far from " the only one"

    Respectfully.

    Jeff
     
  8. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Posted before I was done writing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  9. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Jeff---thanks and I realize that however, there are some shooters that have the ability to judge condition and understand the robust dynamic of shooting at long range and what happens as different conditions bear on the projectile. My particular objective during a match is exclusively score and this of course emulates what you are attempting in the field---hitting the center of what you are aiming at!
     
  10. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I apologize for bringing up Loadbase, I almost PM'ed ya because I thought it would turn into a wreck. Loadbase is the most capable ballistics solution available to the average Joe but I look at it as a tool in my tool box, not all guys use the same tools but get the job done the same.

    Broz I'm really wanting to get with you at the shoot so you can walk me through Exbal, and see what it has. I also know some very serious long range shooter that use Exbal, it works for them and is what they want, I say rock it! I fully agree that reading wind is the deal, I suck I hope to learn something at the shoot. I will say that I have been using the multiple winds to get better hits, but I only can us it if I know how the air moves in the canyon, some of these canyons I have spent significant time in so I know that the air speed in the center is accelerated and I can deal with it, in a BR situation where you have wind flags and steady wind I could see it as a good and easily used tool. I shoot enough to wear a barrel out a year shooting it right and I feel I'm just starting know enough to know I don't know much, Eaglet has helped me get on point with Loadbase and understanding it, I hope to shoot with some of you guys that have the wind and shooting down so I can put both awesome tools together!

    Again I'm not pitching Loadbase it is just that I know it has most of the tools Boss Hoss is looking for and he helped me out with some stuff and I wanted to return the favor not start a contest of sorts.

    On another note I was kinda under the impression that with G1 BC's the velocity banding was helpful but using G7 it is not needed. That said Gus of Loadbase wrote something not to long ago showing how LB deals with the G1 bc's for more accurate correction over longer distances. Eaglet did some work on it to get the graphs better, link added. http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/ballistics-predictions-1.php
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  11. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    WARNING - BLATANT COMMERCIAL INTRUSION :)

    I sell LoadBase in the LRH Gear Shop. Both the full version and separately the desktop or mobile version.

    LoadBase Ballistic Software
     
  12. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    Re: Patagonia Ballistic's LoadBase

    LoadBase pretty much provides what you're looking for Boss Hoss. For $89.50 you can own and operate LoadBase Desktop version and reach your own conclusions. Which will mean much more to you than mine. About $150 for both the Desktop and Mobile versions. And Len is more than happy to assist with your purchase! Patagonia Ballistics - LoadBase Software

    Broz stated LoadBase didn't make him a better shooter. I don't see where that criterion is related.

    But I do expect LoadBase will provide the variety of tools and features you've identified to give you the ability to improve your understanding, analysis, comparisons, and ultimately - odds for first shot hits at long range.

    Broz is the only member of this Forum that's shared that he's used both Exbal and LoadBase - and then expressed the opinion on this Forum's Posts and Threads - of the preference for Exbal over LoadBase. Doesn't mean Broz hasn't reached the correct conclusion for Broz. More power to Broz if he's using the better tool for his needs and preferences. But it does make Broz lone man out - for the time being.

    Last but not least..., with all this politeness being piled on thick, I almost forgot I was posting on LRH. Almost forgot the proper farewell etiquette...,
    With all respectfulness, :)

    PS: 'bigngreen' actually likes LoadBase better than Exbal too! :) just couldn't quite say so... :D
    So, Respectfully from me, on behalf of 'bigngreen' too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  13. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Re: Patagonia Ballistic's LoadBase

    Now that's how you through someone under the bus!:D
     
  14. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I knew it would turn into a LB Schmoozle-fest....
    Didn't I call it??
    Every forum has their biases. LB at LRH, merely amounts to US Optics at SH..

    I used Exbal for years and certainly felt like I got my money's worth. It is very practical for field use.
    I do have many other ballistic programs, including LB.
    But IMO, the Bryan Litz calculator approach(MOBALL) is both practical and as accurate as any today. So that's my choice for the field. Sorry LB. Too convoluted..
    MOBALL