New gun

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by Bob S., Sep 26, 2004.

  1. Bob S.

    Bob S. Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys. Glad to be here. always been into shooting but just recently got the long range bug (relative). I'm thinking about a new hunting rifle. Currently use a 270 win thats been very good to me but want something more. I'm leaning towards a 7mm ultra mag or a 300 win mag. I'd like to use it for deer and elk under 650 yds but would like to tinker in targets to 1000 - 1200 yds or so. Any suggestions/comments welcome or let me know if I'm totally out to lunch. I don't know if this is something that has been addressed before but will be glad to look back to any previous posts recommended. [​IMG]
     
  2. RiverRat

    RiverRat Well-Known Member

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    While I don't have a 300 Win Mag. I do have a 300 WSM and it works fine out 1200 yards on target and steel plates. And anything the 300 WSM will do the 300 Win Mag will do equaly as well, maybe with a little more velocity. Especially with the 200 gr. and above bullets. Deer and elk to 650 will be no problem with the right bullet and a good load if you do your part. "If you are going to be dumb, you have to be tough". My dad told me that when I was kid after I tried to ride my bicycle off a 6' bank and crashed and burnt big time. I had never heard or saw that anywhere but from him. Did you ride your bicycle off a bank too?......LOL

    RiverRat
     

  3. Bob S.

    Bob S. Well-Known Member

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    I also considered the 300 wsm but don't really think I need the short action. standard length actions and single shots are fine with me cause I will do whatever it takes to make sure I only need 1 shot. My dad also told me this when I jumped from a garage roof and landed on my knees, man did that hurt. I'm probably one of the dumbest guys around. have to learn by pain. I think it might be a twist on a john wayne quote that goes something like this. "Life is tough but its tougher if you are dumb".
     
  4. Iron Worker

    Iron Worker Well-Known Member

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    Hey Cowboy Have you read what a bunch of us are saying about the 300 Ultra Mag.It kicks --- 200 gr Nosler Accubond in front of 95.5 of Retumbo gives up 3,200FPS.Must have a muzzel brake,our it will knock you into next week,I have a Vias,it works well.
     
  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    I would agree that the extra horsepower of the 300 RUM would serve you well. At the ranges youare wanting to hunt at, out to 650 yards this would be in my opinion a better round, especially for elk.

    For deer, there is no real need for a 200 gr bullet but there is nothing wrong with them either. To much penetration is never a disadvantage in the field.

    Still I like the 180 gr Ballistic Tip, Ballistic Silvertip or Accubond for strictly deer hunting loaded to 3400 fps.

    For elk, I would use nothing but the 200 gr Accubond in a factory rifle because of the performance this bullet is getting on game at longer ranges.

    Your biggest problem will be getting a factory rifle to be consistant enough for you at 650 yards for taking deer size game.

    Get a rifle designed for longer range shooting, such as the Sendero or something on that line. A light weight sporter can be used at those ranges but they are no where near as easy to shoot at longer ranges.

    You may also need to have the rifle accurized to perform well at these ranges.

    Once your rifle will handle the job, then you need to get prepared for those shots and this is only done with alot of range practice and ballistic studying.

    If you want to hunt at 650 yards, you should practice at 800 yards in my opinion. DO not shoot at 300 yards and then go off a published ballistic chart.

    Prove the numbers at teh range in the temps you will be hunting in and record all your data.

    This is not real critical for hunting out to 400 yards but when pushing a factory rifle to 500 yards and beyond, you need to have your ducks in a row before the shot opportunity arises.

    I also agree with the muzzle brake, I highly recommend the Holland QD brake for my customers heavy kicking big game rifles but most popular brakes will reduce the recoil noticably.

    I just prefer the Hollands because they have a solid bottom and are designed to be fired from prone field postitions without covering the shooter with ground debris.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Cowboy-- I have had Vias and Holland brakes, the Holland works better. The S1 brake works better than either of them though, and it controls the torque, which is way better when shootin off a bipod. He makes two models, one with holes all the way around, and one with no holes on the bottom or top, this is the one he put on my 300 WSM and it is the best brake I have ever tried by a good margin.

    I have two buds with Rem 700 stainless Ultra Mags, one is in 300 and the other in 7 mm, both shoot great, under 5 inches at 600 yards. And both gents have taken game past 800 yards very cleanly. You can't go wrong with any of the big calibers, shot placement and reading the wind is what counts on the long kills.

    Ralph
     
  7. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Cowboy

    Go with the 300 WSM. I have shot a 18" group at a mile with 210 JLKs from my 1k HG.

    For hunting almost any heavy barreled bolt action (sendaro, win coyote, stealth, savage etc) with lapping lugs, bedding and recrowning is more than adequate for deer at 650 yards and beyond if you practice and work up a decent load.

    My win coyote 300 wsm goes about 10-14" at 1000 with only bedding, trigger adjustment and lapping lugs. They should easily go 1 MOA with 165 or 180 interbonds, accubonds, amax etc.

    As for a brake, for hunting you will not need it. If you want one, buy the Holland ($65) and have your gunsmith make a threaded cap for barrel when you take the brake off.

    BH
     
  8. Bob S.

    Bob S. Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the input. I'm still undecided at the moment but I'll keep you posted when I do decide.
     
  9. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    Elk are tough animals! Accuracy alone is not enough, study the down range energy of the short Magnums vs the energy of the Ultra
    Magnums there is a considerable difference. Also trajectory wise the slower Short Magnums will hurt out past 450 as compaired to the more powerful options.
     
  10. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    For hunting purposes, I think most people who pick the 300 RUM and other super mags in "hunting weight" guns suffer more in the accuracy department from recoil than flatness of trajectory.

    Within 10 shots, they flinch like hell and cannot hit the broad side of a barn, not matter how flat it shoots and how much energy it "dumps into the dirt 20 yards from the target".

    My 300 WSM is only 26 MOA up at 1000 while the supermags are 22 MOA from a 100 yard zero.

    One will knock the snot out of you in a hunting gun and down range energy is not that different out to 1000. Either will give you more than enough energy to kill an elk.

    Look no further than the used gun shelves that are littered with Sendaros in 300 RUM with 10 shots fired.

    BH
     
  11. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    BountyHunter,

    I agree that the new Supermags are more then most shooters and hunters are able to master with the limited amount of shooting that many shooters actually do.

    I also feel that with a quality recoil pad, nothing offered on a factory rifle is what I would consider "Quality" and a good muzzle brake installed, the 300 RUM will kick much less then a 300 WSM out of even an 8 lb rifle.

    Plus the brake will control torque much better as well.

    Now I also feel a brake is not the end all of all recoil problems as increased muzzle blast can be just as distracting as recoil to some shooters but there are ways to tame the big magnums if they are creating a problem for the owner.

    Often with onlythe installation of a quality recoil pad like the 1" or thicker Kick Eez pads, all of the "bite" is taken out of the RUM class rounds, even in 7.5 lb Rem 700 SS models.

    They still hit you hard but there is no pain like with factory rifles so there are ways to tame these heavy kickers into enjoyable extreme range hunting rifles if their recoil is more then the owner wants to deal with.

    I also agree the WSM will perfrom well at those ranges but for Elk hunting I would much prefer to use the 200 gr Accubond and this bullet is a little heavy and long for a factory length WSM action.

    For the WSM the 180 gr version would be better I feel.

    Good Shooting!!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  12. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Kirby

    Agree you can do all that, but bottom line is to what purpose and expense?

    A 300 WSM with quality 180 has more than enough KE energy, penetration and flat trajectory to kill anything in lower 48 at 1000 yards and punch paper much further.

    Now take the same tricks you outlined and do to the 8 lb 300 WSM and it will kick like a 243 and anyone can shoot it accurately every shot, plus fits into any magazine.

    While most 300 RUM shooters are not going to do that and even fewer will master the gun to shoot accurately past 100 yards due to recoil, muzzle blast etc.

    Just my 2 cents but the number of used 300 RUMs back it up.

    BH
     
  13. Bob S.

    Bob S. Well-Known Member

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    Well I got my new gun. It's not the 7mm ultra mag that I was leaning towards but I think it will do the job and I got a pretty good deal. Win mod 70 in 338 win mag. I got the gun, scope, dies, 200 rounds of once fired primed brass, and about 30 225 grain hornady sst bullets for $385. I'm happy and can't wait to get out and shoot it. Now I just need to figure out the tricks for reloading those belted magnums. [​IMG]
     
  14. VSSF

    VSSF Well-Known Member

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    I've been checking the used shelves for a .338RUM sendero,can't find one.Love my .300RUM though.