New barrel maker with new technology

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Jeff In TX, Mar 6, 2007.

  1. Jeff In TX

    Jeff In TX Well-Known Member

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    Instead of continuing the barrel break-in thread on new barrels and barrel technologies I thought I’d start a new thread.

    How many of you have heard of Bartlein Barrels. Mind you most of what I know is what my gunsmith has filled me in on and what I’ve read on their website. BTW, I have ordered a tight twist .308 barrel with 5R rifling in 11.27 twist for my AR-10 build.

    Link to Bartlein Barrels

    The folks who started Bartlein barrels were former barrel makers at Krieger Barrels. Not sure what happened or why they left and started Bartlein. What makes them different is the equipment used to make their barrels. It’s all brand new state of the art CNC equipment. According to my g-smith, most barrel makers are using equipment and technology that is 40 to 60 years old. It works well and they build great barrels, but the new Bartlein barrels are very different.

    What ever bore dimension and twist you want, they can produce.

    Here’s a quote from their website
    “The uniformity in our barrels and finish of the bores is second to none. Our rifling machines are so accurate, we can carry the twist rate to the 4th decimal point (example: 11.3642). The process of Single Point Cut Rifling is the most stress free way to rifle a barrel. The twist is exact; where as other forms of rifling can have variances due to the process they use. Also, the bore and groove dimensions are more uniform.

    We pre-lap our barrels before rifling and finish lap the barrel after rifling. There is no need or under any circumstances, should you fire lap or do any other sort of bore polishing to the barrel.”

    With this technology and machinery, they are on the cutting edge of developing new innovations in barrel making. I'm looking forward to my new barrel, as my g-smith said, there barrels are out performing all the other top of the line barrels he used to install hands down.

    Just thought I’d share!
     
  2. yotefever

    yotefever Well-Known Member

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    I live near by their shop and had the owners brother do a custom paint job on my HS stock for my Anschutz handgun. I plan on having them make a new longer barrel for it, 10 to 14".
     

  3. 7mmRHB

    7mmRHB Well-Known Member

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    Jeff

    Your report is interesting. I just heard today that another company is useing that same CNC process and turning out some great barrels.( Satern Custom machining. )Sounds like a new trend. I think we'll give one a try in .338

    7mmRHB
     
  4. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    One thing about Bartlein barrels is that theirs began to be in the winners circle immeaditely in the BR circles.
     
  5. Jeff In TX

    Jeff In TX Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Jeff

    Your report is interesting. I just heard today that another company is useing that same CNC process and turning out some great barrels.( Satern Custom machining. )Sounds like a new trend. I think we'll give one a try in .338

    7mmRHB

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I've never heard of Satern barrels, but if it's true, all these new barrel makers will force changes within the barrel making community very quickly. Famous barrel makers we used to use and trust will be force to change to modern machinery, update their procedures and practices or will quietly be pushed out. New names will take there place.

    For us shooters, this can only be the start of good things to come.
     
  6. chickenman

    chickenman Member

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    I just had a 22-243 made by bryant custom with a 28 inch 5r sendero contour bartlien barrel shoots 3 tenths at 300 3shot groups on a good day. Shot it 4 times cleaned, than 4 more cleaned, barrel was broke in .
     
  7. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Jeff

    Your report is interesting. I just heard today that another company is useing that same CNC process and turning out some great barrels.( Satern Custom machining. )Sounds like a new trend. I think we'll give one a try in .338

    7mmRHB

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I've never heard of Satern barrels, but if it's true, all these new barrel makers will force changes within the barrel making community very quickly. Famous barrel makers we used to use and trust will be force to change to modern machinery, update their procedures and practices or will quietly be pushed out. New names will take there place.

    For us shooters, this can only be the start of good things to come.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Actually, the reason new companies are using 'new machinery', building their own, is because they can't get a hold of a decent Pratt and Whitney 1/2 B, either due to lack of availability or price..No CNC technology is going to produce a 'better' barrel than a well maintained P&W, and those presently producing barrels with well maintaned P&W's will definitely not be pushed out of the scene, bud. You might need a better understanding of the machinery and rifling process itself to understand where I'm coming from..

    Where the CNC type machines would most benefit the user is the ability to quickly change the twist rates and groove counts. I've used 1/2 B's outfitted with Haas 5c indexers, and it was a doddle to switch to any groove count, from 1 to 999..Using the mechanical indexers, it takes about 20 minutes to change say from 6 groove to 5 groove, and the minimum groove count is 4 due to the limitations of the mechanism. Could adapt the mechanism to run 2 or 3 groove, but don't see the need at present.

    Twist rates would also be a touch of the button away on the CNC's, where with the 1/2 b's you either change the lead screw or use a change gear adaptor set as we do(using the lead screw as an idler, and two change gears to adjust the twist rate), which would take more time, but it's usually only a 5 minute job with the 1/2 b. If you need a different twist you use different sets of gears. If you don't have the gear set, you make them. Simple. There isn't a more uniform twist than one produced on a 1/2 B. Perhaps as uniform, but not more. And you don't get more positive backlash control than the mechanism on the pratts.

    I have nothing against the CNC's, in fact I welcome them. As I said previously, the Pratt's are few and far between, so to start up your own cut rifling facility without a rifler is a PITA..If CNC technology brings more players to the cut rifling market, the better..More players means cut rifling is going to be here to stay for a while longer yet..

    Just my 2p

    JR
     
  8. bailey1474

    bailey1474 <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Actually, the reason new companies are using 'new machinery', building their own, is because they can't get a hold of a decent Pratt and Whitney 1/2 B, either due to lack of availability or price..No CNC technology is going to produce a 'better' barrel than a well maintained P&amp;W, and those presently producing barrels with well maintaned P&amp;W's will definitely not be pushed out of the scene

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not an engineer or a machinist but this echoes my thoughts exactly.
     
  9. Jeff In TX

    Jeff In TX Well-Known Member

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    JR,

    Great post and thanks for the insight. You are correct, I'm not a machinist and I’m not versed in the different types of machinery…but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. I’m an EE and I really did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

    I had no idea what the capabilities of old equipment had compared to the new CNC equipment. I do know that the new CNC machining equipment have made tremendous advances in a lot of the everyday products we use. There are bolt actions being designed and built with incredible tolerances that wouldn’t be possible with traditional machining equipment. So it would be logical to think sooner or later new process and barrel designs we begin to come forward from some new and creative minds that will think outside the norm.

    Thanks for the post, most informative.
     
  10. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    i heard from a top notch gun builder who along with Barney Lawton,visited "Boots" last week.he said some of his machines were built in the late 1800's
     
  11. albert

    albert Member

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    IMHO the important item is the person running it, Not the machince. CNC is good thing for robots. Digital isn't always better. Although it does seem to be the preception.
     
  12. Dzaw

    Dzaw Well-Known Member

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    Just got off the horn with Bartlein barrels. Very nice folk over there! Intelligent, well spoken, easy to talk to, and they know their machines!

    Seems the CNC machines they are running are quite versatile. I broached (forgive the pun) the subject of hoping someday to see a cut polygon rifling.

    Undaunted in the least, the gentleman I was speaking to seemed to think this would be immenently do-able. He said the charge would likely be in the $75 dollar - ish range (he was hesitant to be seen as "quoting" a price before he had the specs, a reasonable caution these days)for the custom tooling, but aside from that, the idea didn't phase him in the least.
     
  13. lazylabs

    lazylabs Well-Known Member

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    K&amp;P used a CNC rifling machines several years ago and I would guess still are. The maintenance should be a lot less expensive and time consuming on a new machine than a wore out P&amp;W. CNC could at least have replacement parts readily available. I think Badger barrels are also all CNC and cut rifled....sorta, they are broached.
     
  14. cdog

    cdog Well-Known Member

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    What is the brand(s) names of these types of machines? And just for fun, how much is one worth?
    Cdog.