New and need educated????

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Straight Shooter, Mar 4, 2012.

  1. Straight Shooter

    Straight Shooter Active Member

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    I have been lurking for two years and am interested in a less expensive long range rifle for my son for his graduation from college. I have a 308 Remington laminated stock with 26 inch heavy barrel which would make a good platform to start with. However, it seems the rage is 6.5 mm. I have looked at the new Savage long range hunter in 6.5 x 284 and 6.5 Creedmoor. However, after pouring over ballistic tables I can't see where these beat the 260 Rem, 270 Win., 280 Rem, and 7mm-08 by anything if at all. I think I would like the Savage long range hunter if they made it in 7mm-08 because of cheaper brass, selection of bullets, etc. It seems like you could put all of these rounds in a hat and shake it up and pick one out and it is as good as the rest. Please educate me a little.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    You have already discovered the truth of it all.....:D If you arent going to keep the 308...have the barrel pulled off and a new .260 barrel ( same taper so it drops right back in) installed.
     

  3. diriel

    diriel Well-Known Member

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    What it really boils down to is recoil vs. how well it does at the long ranges. Essentially, the heavier the bullet the more recoil you must absorb and deal with. Which of course takes up valuable time. Time in a competition is one of those things that can eat you alive some days. For instance, the longer it takes to get back on target and steady up your sight picture the more the Wind may have changed. If you break and discover the wind shifted you just missed the bull. Another thing is, the body can only take So Much Recoil before it becomes "punch drunk", once that happens you may as well pack it in for the day because you are done.

    So, it is a balancing act. The good old .243 shooting a 105 or 115 can give it hell out to 1k for not a lot of recoil. The .260 is relatively mild with a 140 ish grainer, and it too will easily out shoot the old 308. The 308 however is still a Very Good round out to 1k! The new berger 155 Hybrids are very nice indeed when pushed by 8208 or ARComp.

    Like you said, put them in a bag and shake them and reach in pick one out :) But the trade offs are ability to deal with the wind, and the recoil the shooter must deal with.

    Gary
     
  4. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    One thing, you may put the 243, 260, 7mm-08, 270, 280, 308 all in a hat and pick one and not notice much difference, but the 6.5x284 will dominate all of them, it is held back by the 24" barrel of the savage lrh, but with a 26" or longer barrel that round will shoot .612 bc 140 bergers at 3100fps, none of the rest compare.
     
  5. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Are you after ballistics for paper shooting or are we going to do some long range hunting with this rig?
     
  6. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    You are correct that you can be successful with most of the ones listed. It all just depends on what you want to shoot and how far.

    If you're not going to hand load, sitck with the 308 for the best factory match ammo.

    If you're hand loading, don't let the cost of the brass affect your decision. Go for quality brass. If Lapua doesn't make it, pick a different cartridge.

    Recoil and lapua brass put 6.5x284 and 260 rem at the top of your list.

    Perhaps you should start with developing a good load using 175 Berger OTMs, Lapua Brass, CCI BR4 primers, and IMR4064 powder for your 308? You might be surprised.

    -- richard
     
  7. Straight Shooter

    Straight Shooter Active Member

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    Backwoods83,
    I have found on this site an article about a 270 shooting Matrix 165 grain bullets with a.650 BC. I guess the Savage LRH is out if I can't ring the most out of its 24 inch barrel.

    BignGreen,
    This is mainly for paper punching.

    rscott5028,
    I have handloads for the 308 right now in 168 grain with 4064 that will put yer eye out at a good distance. Haven't tried the 175 grainers yet. Maybe I just need to get a good scope for that rifle.

    Gentlemen, thanks for all of your comments. Keep them coming.
     
  8. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    Yes the 270wsm or weatherby shooting 165 matrix vlds can be a good combo, but I have yet to see any 25 or 27 calibers set the world on fire or any simple records for that's matter, not many use them because of the lack of bullet selection. If your punching paper inside of 800 yards just keep playing with your 308, try some 185 hybrid OTMs with RE15, at 308 velocities most 168 grain bullets are dead in the water after 600yrds, the new .519bc 168 OTM does look promising though.
     
  9. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    Spend your money on a 20MOA picatinny rail and a good scope.

    You can always use these on a new rifle down the road.

    You will be amazed what that 308 can do with a little practice and the right optics/ballistics solution.

    -- richard
     
  10. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the forum.
    I will have to disagree with your comment about the 6,5x284. While the other cartridges are excellent rounds and I wouldn't discourage you from giftng any of them to your son, the 6,5x284 ballistically, at long range will exceed all of them by 200-300 yards of effective hunting range if the comparisons are made with hand loaded ammo. IMHO.
     
  11. Straight Shooter

    Straight Shooter Active Member

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    Greyfox, can you explain a little? If you are shooting bullets with relatively the same BC at the same speeds how does the 6.5 x 284 outdo them by 200-300 yards?
     
  12. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    243win 105 vld .532bc 3100fps, 260rem 139 lapua .617bc 2850fps, 7mm-08 .617bc 168 vld 2650fps, 280rem .617bc 168vld 2875fps, 270win .65bc matrix 2800fps, 308win .481bc 155 OTM 3000fps, 6.5x284 .617bc 139 lapua 3000fps. All based on 24" barrels, you run the ballistics, the 6.5x284 comes in first with the 270 and 280 almosted tied for second.
     
  13. Greyfox

    Greyfox Well-Known Member

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    Sure. You are not shooting same BC/same velocity. Make sure that you are not comparing factory load data. The 6,5x284 is not represented to it's potential with any factory load, as is probably true of the others as well. For LR work you need to look at the VLD comparisons. The bullets with close BC's are too heavy to drive at the same velocities as the 6.5.x284. The case size of the 6.5x284 is about the same as the 280 and 270. It takes 168gr in a 280 to match the BC of a 6,5 in 140gr. It's physics. Forget the 260/7mm08., no chance. The Ack's and Short Mags can do it. I wish these calibers would deliver the same ballistics. I have all of them. We haven't even discussed inherent accuracy, in which the 6,5x284 leads the pack at LR. Of the rifles you spoke of, IMHO, the Savage LRH would make the most effective 1000 yard shooter. I have this rifle and it is absolutely deadly on deer out to at least 1000 yards.
     
  14. str8shoot

    str8shoot Well-Known Member

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    If it is for punching paper, I would go with one of the .308 short action cartridges(243, 260, 7-08, 308). If you don't hand load you gotta go with a 308. Of these 260 would be my choice if you hand load. Better yet a 6mm BR with an 8 twist, that's what I'm building for a long range practice rig.

    If it's for hunting I would have to know what you were gonna hunt to make a call there.