Need to order dies and need help.

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Cruizin, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. Cruizin

    Cruizin Well-Known Member

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    This is kind of a continuation of another post. I am having a 338/300 made and need to order some dies. I am thinking I will be using Federal brass and want to order a forester FL die with a custom neck diameter. Problem is I can't load brass with a 300 smk without the die to measure the neck thickness.

    I am thinking I will buy fed brass, run it through a FL die, trim to make sure the edge is flat, then neck turn to take the high spots off, does anyone know what the brass will measure after I do this?

    Dave Wilson you out there?
     
  2. Cruizin

    Cruizin Well-Known Member

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    Actually what I think I'm going to have to do is buy a FL standard die that opens up the neck and then I can do the steps above and measure the neck.

    Is there any other way to open up the neck other than using a FL die and an oversized expander ball?
     

  3. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    Crusin, i'm here. sorry it took a while. what you need is a device that has interchangeable expander mandrels.i'm pretty sure Sinclair makes one but i don't know what it's called. mine is not a Sinclair but works the same. the outside is a 7/8 thread that screws into the press and the center is threaded to hold whatever size mandrel you need on the bottom.the mandrels have a tapered beginning,maybe a 3-5 degree slope that ends up at slightly under bullet diameter. hopefully about the same diameter as your mandrel for turning the necks. this operation is performed on your reloading press with the appropriate shell holder.just push the shell up over the mandrel and pull it back off.i use a generous amount of resizing lube.once the necks are pushed out,i run them through the FL sizer to straighten them out, as some are noticeably crooked.

    i was told by 2 people that had this round that loaded ammo was 365 in the neck so i ordered a 368 neck on my reamer and 362 in the FL die i got from Forster.when i finally got some loaded they were 368 in the neck so i have to turn mine. wasn't what i wanted but that's what i got. i've only used Rem brass so far.i'll see if i can find what Sinclair calls their product. it's great for any new brass, as you know most of it is rather lumpy in the neck,and this tool will make it perfectly round. hope this helps.

    the tool is called a Sinclair Expander Body. #NT-EXP. you'll find it in the reloading equipement,under neck turning tools.just buy whatever neck turning mandrels you'll need for every caliber you own, or think you'll ever need.
     
  4. Cruizin

    Cruizin Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Dave for that information. I owe ya one. So if you could do it over again maybe a .372 reamer would have been the ticket? You should try some federal brass. I've heard it's a little thicker though, have you found that to be true?

    How about you other 338 edge owners out there... what does your necks measure and what brass and bullet are you using?

    Thanks,
     
  5. Cruizin

    Cruizin Well-Known Member

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    How about you other 338 edge owners out there... what does your necks measure and what brass and bullet are you using?

    Thanks,
     
  6. Ballistic64

    Ballistic64 Well-Known Member

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    Im not familiar with the Forester die,is it a bushingless die that you specify the neck dia. for? If it is and thats definately what you want,your probably better off getting your brass,turning it the desired amount,measure the wall thickness of your brass and bullet dia. then decide how much tension you want and subtract it from your findings.
    All that being said,thats the beauty of bushing style dies.Redding has its "S" series full length dies that use interchangeable neck bushings as do other manufacturers.
    Confused yet? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  7. Cruizin

    Cruizin Well-Known Member

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    No I'm not confused...not yet anyway. I have some redding dies but I figured I would try to get around the donut that is formed if you don't neck turn.

    I just ordered some brass and an expander to open it up. After I expand the necks I will need to FL size the brass before I take the high spots off the neck. If there is anyone around Salt Lake City that has a 338/300 RUM or equivalent that can FL size some brass for me I would really appreciate it.

    Thanks,
     
  8. Ballistic64

    Ballistic64 Well-Known Member

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    I dont have any experience with the 338-300,but why would a doughnut form just from necking up without neck turning?
    If you have the neck turning expander coming,the expander should open the 308 neck to fit the 338 neck turning mandrel without having to FL size the brass.After turning the necks you should only need to size the neck back down for the desired bullet tension.A doughnut formation in the brass is usually the result of not turning the necks the proper distance into the shoulder of the case(which does or doesnt matter depending on how far your bullets are seated into the neck.Tell me if Im missing something.Im not trying to critisize at all,just trying to understand something Ive never done yet.
     
  9. Cruizin

    Cruizin Well-Known Member

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    After giving this more thought I think I'm just going to stick with what I know which is the Redding type S dies. This way I can always order another bushing size if need be.
     
  10. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

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    The expander does in fact, force the brass down as the shellholder comes up, forming a donut in and out near the base of the neck. Removal requires an inside reamer and a outside neck turner. I like the K&M turner, which can be adjusted by .0001 clicks. K&M also makes an inside reamer (as do RCBS, Redding, Forster, etc.) If the base of your bullet does not touch the donut inside, it is of no consequence and does not require removal. If not removed, the exterior donut will reform inside the neck when case is fired. Best to turn it off.
     
  11. Big_Tex22

    Big_Tex22 Active Member

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    I might be wrong, but if you full length size after every shooting, the donut will travel forward as brass headspaces and expandes during firing?
    I've never thought about the expander pushing brass down, makes sense. But wouldn't it pull it back up also on the way out? And I guess it would make sense that different brands of more or less taper on the expander ball would cause the effect more or less than other brands?
    I'm new to this game also, learning alot here.
     
  12. Herb D

    Herb D Member

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    I wish I had seen this thread and maybe I would have changed my mind about the 338-300.
    Mine should be finished any day now and ordered the dies fromRCBS.
    I sure didn't think there'd be problems expanding the brass.
    I'll experiment with Rem. once fired brass and then switch to Federal if I figure out how to resize primed brass.????

    Herb
     
  13. Cruizin

    Cruizin Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if you have read the other post on RCBS dies and the headspacing issue, but if it was me I would return them and get the redding bushing dies, and plan on cleaning up the necks.

    Here read this it should help with getting the low es and sd needed in long range shooting....

    http://www.6mmbr.com/JGcaseprep.html
     
  14. Herb D

    Herb D Member

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    Interesting reading and, no, I haven't read about the RCBS dies. I was naive when I ordered my 338-300. I surely didn't want to get involved with donuts and neck turning. In my 40 some years of reloading I have never gotten to that point.

    I do recall getting donuts when forming 25-06 cases from 30-06. But those donuts disappeared by fireforming with the first shot.

    I'm wondering if 300 RUM cases couldn't be fireformed most easily using Cream-of-Wheat. Anyone here try this method?