Need some seasoned advice!

[westcliffe01]

Or buy the savage 110 6.5x284 for $730 and keep your existing rifle. I told you that re-barreling a Remington is not cheap. Remington barrel blanks routinely cost the price of an equally good Savage pre-fit or more. They you still have to find a really good smith to chamber and crown and cut the barrel tenon and the shoulder. If those jobs are not done right, your expensive match blank can be turned into a paperweight real fast.

I spent over 6 months trying to get my Remington re-barreled and gave up in disgust. Only Criterion is making Remington pre-fits with the Savage barrel nut right now and their lead time is heading for 20 weeks. McGowan has been advertising something similar in their outlet, but more than half the year has passed without 1 being offered for sale.

In my view, Remington rifles are only for fanatics who are willing to go through the torture that is needed to work with one, or they have a very good smith who they have a great relationship with who does everything perfect. I have no such source in Michigan. Plenty advertise that they do it, until you call them and ask for a price and lead time, at which point 3/4 say they are not accepting that work currently. Or they want more for the smithing alone than the entire price of another rifle. I have had that kind of response lately looking for a smith to re-barrel a Mauser (I have a brand new replacement barrel in hand). Fit barrel, crown, bolt handle job + install sight base = $600+. Lead time several months.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Or buy the savage 110 6.5x284 for $730 and keep your existing rifle. I told you that re-barreling a Remington is not cheap. Remington barrel blanks routinely cost the price of an equally good Savage pre-fit or more. They you still have to find a really good smith to chamber and crown and cut the barrel tenon and the shoulder. If those jobs are not done right, your expensive match blank can be turned into a paperweight real fast.

I spent over 6 months trying to get my Remington re-barreled and gave up in disgust. Only Criterion is making Remington pre-fits with the Savage barrel nut right now and their lead time is heading for 20 weeks. McGowan has been advertising something similar in their outlet, but more than half the year has passed without 1 being offered for sale.

In my view, Remington rifles are only for fanatics who are willing to go through the torture that is needed to work with one, or they have a very good smith who they have a great relationship with who does everything perfect. I have no such source in Michigan. Plenty advertise that they do it, until you call them and ask for a price and lead time, at which point 3/4 say they are not accepting that work currently. Or they want more for the smithing alone than the entire price of another rifle. I have had that kind of response lately looking for a smith to re-barrel a Mauser (I have a brand new replacement barrel in hand). Fit barrel, crown, bolt handle job + install sight base = $600+. Lead time several months.

That's funny.....I've had Remingtons rebarreled and they shot 1 hole groups... Guess a competent gunsmith should be added to the equation.

If a smith can't get a 700 to shoot, he needs to find an anternate career. Any smith should be able to cut threads on a barrel blank, square an action, and headspace a bolt-action rifle. You get those 3 right, all that's left is float the barrel, skim-bed the action, and glass bed the lug. It's not a very intense process.

 

[westcliffe01]

You might have a willing and capable gunsmith local to you or that you have a good relationship with.

If I take bugholes.com as an example (their prices are actually more reasonable than local vendors, but I have no idea of their lead times):

Barrel Blank = $315 starting price
Fit barrel = $250
Rem 700 action truing = $210
Return shipping = $40

Total = $815
Most of these vendors will tell you that fitting a match barrel to an action that has not been trued is a waste of time, and truing is just 25% of the cost.

If I take Williams Gun Sight, Inc. | Gun sights for rifles, pistols, shotguns, muzzleloaders, and more (the only smith in my area actually accepting this type of work right now):

Blueprint action = $235
Custom barrel instalation = $325
Barrel Blank (assume bugholes.com) $315
No shipping in this case for me
Total = $875

By comparison, on any of the 3 Savage rifles I have built, the fully finished barrel has been $350. Period. And no waiting around for any gunsmith and I know that someone at Shilen gun drilled, reamed, rifled, lapped, chambered, contoured and crowned my barrel and they are selling it as their finished product on which their reputations is built.

16 weeks of waiting for a reputable company to make my Remington barrel was a complete fail, I never did see the barrel in all that time after a 4 week lead time was promised. Now I no longer own any more Remington rifles. Problem solved.

 

[MudRunner2005]

West, that sucks about your experience...But that's honestly not a reason to blame Remington, if the barrel maker screwed the pooch. I can understand your frustration. I had an old 200th Anniversary Ruger 77 .220 Swift, and while it was an awesome cold bore rifle, the ones following it wouldn't hit the broad side of crap. I traded it to a co-worker who wanted it for a custom Model 7 that needed a rebarrel. We were both happy, so it worked out.

Yes I do have a semi-local smith. I know him very well. Been doing business with him for 11 years now. He told me that I can get a Douglas Air-Gauged blank, chambered, and fitted to my action, bedded, floated, and the action trued for around $750. Granted, that's my price on it, but I'm also a loyal repeat customer.

Yes, I'm lucky my smith is semi-local. He's an old guy who's been smithing since he was about 18-20, and he's probably mid 70's now. He knows his stuff like nobody I' e ever seen. He still uses old school equipment, too. And his precision level is insane.

 

[westcliffe01]

All I'm saying is that no matter how you cut it, the cost is double compared to working with a Savage action to begin with. Yes, one has the advantage of many trigger and stock choices and subjectively the action will "feel" superior to a Savage and you won't have the feeling that the bolt is about to fall apart on you with all its sloppy parts. No doubt, there are some subjective differences that will keep some people away. Some will hate on the accutrigger and I really can't say we have anything directly comparable to the Remington options.

But, you are paying for it. If Remington just made their actions on a CNC machining center to begin with and single point cut the thread instead of using a tap etc etc it would be a superior product.

 

[MudRunner2005]

All I'm saying is that no matter how you cut it, the cost is double compared to working with a Savage action to begin with. Yes, one has the advantage of many trigger and stock choices and subjectively the action will "feel" superior to a Savage and you won't have the feeling that the bolt is about to fall apart on you with all its sloppy parts. No doubt, there are some subjective differences that will keep some people away. Some will hate on the accutrigger and I really can't say we have anything directly comparable to the Remington options.

But, you are paying for it. If Remington just made their actions on a CNC machining center to begin with and single point cut the thread instead of using a tap etc etc it would be a superior product.

No doubt it would definitely up the ante if Rem milled their actions from billet chunks, and would single-point thread. They certainly would be up there with the Weatherby Mark V actions they hand-work for the Accumarks. If Rem did that, and kept the prices around what they are now, spent a little more time on all the barrels, they would be the best factory rifles around. They would be comparable to the A-Bolt II's, but with TONS of aftermarket and custom parts, which would pit them above the Brownings, IMO, simply based on the mass parts compared to the A-Bolt II.

I also wish Rem would incorporate a 60* bolt throw like the Weatherbys and Brownings. That is the only design change I would really make, despite the obvious current short-comings.

 

[Beluebow]

boattailed bandit,,

If and when your ready to rebuild your remmy shoot me a pm.I have a smith local to me and possibly you depending on your location in northern Ark.You will be HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY with your rifle, price and turn around time.

 

[Sully2]

Y

16 weeks of waiting for a reputable company to make my Remington barrel was a complete fail, I never did see the barrel in all that time after a 4 week lead time was promised. Now I no longer own any more Remington rifles. Problem solved.

Thats NOT Remingtons fault. Give your gunsmith a cussing...and better yet tell the BB who is was and what poor service he gave you

 

[Sully2]

By comparison, on any of the 3 Savage rifles I have built, the fully finished barrel has been $350. Period. And no waiting around for any gunsmith and I know that someone at Shilen gun drilled, reamed, rifled, lapped, chambered, contoured and crowned my barrel and they are selling it as their finished product on which their reputations is built.

16 weeks of waiting for a reputable company to make my Remington barrel was a complete fail, I never did see the barrel in all that time after a 4 week lead time was promised. Now I no longer own any more Remington rifles. Problem solved.

Who sets the headspace on your Savage actions??
Who finishes the barrel and action exteriors?

THere is a lot you leave out when comparing pricing...and besides that...when your all done what do you have? A Savage..thats what!

 

[boattailed bandit]

Beluebow

Im located south west of the Jonesboro area. (Cant be to descriptive these days) hahaha. But Im not sure if Im dead set on the remmy just yet. Really liking what I see with the Savages these days. But I will pm you if the need arises. Thanks for the info.

 

[westcliffe01]

Remington is responsible for the design and execution of the receiver. When their good design is combined with crap execution which then requires you to pay hundreds of extra $ to true your action and you to get into a several month long queue to get it done, that is Remingtons fault. When the lack of a common standard for what constitutes a "trued" Remington receiver results in the complete absence of Remington prefit barrels, that may not directly be Remingtons fault, but it is the fault of the collective cottage industry that surrounds this product.

If you search for my previous postings, I have already had it out regarding the barrel provider. I'm sure the moderators don't appreciate vendor bashing in every thread on this board.

I'm perfectly OK with anyone who wants to go the Remington route, but I want to be clear that financially there is no question that the Savage system is more affordable while not giving up anything in the way of function. And to a large extent, a lot of waiting on gunsmiths is not needed. Popular caliber barrels can be bought at Midway or Brownells. Specials you are going to have to wait for, but all you are waiting for is the barrel maker.

Thats NOT Remingtons fault. Give your gunsmith a cussing...and better yet tell the BB who is was and what poor service he gave you

 

[westcliffe01]

I set the head space, it is no more than a 5 min job. No lathe needed.

All the $350 barrels I buy are stainless steel and are semi polished. There is no "need" for finishing except if I want the entire action cerakoted, that was not listed in either the Remington or Savage case.

What I have at the end is a rifle that shoots. That's all any of us wants.

Like this:

Total cost < $650 for the rifle, $830 if I include the new stock which was not needed to get it to shoot.

Who sets the headspace on your Savage actions??
Who finishes the barrel and action exteriors?

THere is a lot you leave out when comparing pricing...and besides that...when your all done what do you have? A Savage..thats what!

 

[MudRunner2005]

He's already got the Rem action, and could have a custom LR rifle for $650-700. Wby not utilize what you have? Also, like Sully said, a custom 700 holds a value....A Savage is still a Savage. Not downing them, just saying they are what they are. And custom 700's hold their value and have a large part of the custom market cornered.

Plus, like you said, a trued 700 action is just a smooth operator...It's hard to beat.

 

[westcliffe01]

Ford vs Chevy etc etc.

What you mean to say is that for an ADDITIONAL $700 to $800 AND a bunch of waiting on gunsmiths, he could turn his Remington into something better. But he could also keep his Remington, spend the same amount of money and have a second rifle. Or sell his Remington and the price would about cover his entire Savage build without having to spend another dime, or just a small amount.

Some people love Remingtons and just ignore their faults, I'm well aware of it. But one cannot have a rational conversation with such people, because my $650 Savage which shoots 1/4" groups is "just a Savage", "still a Savage" etc. It sounds like our education system where people expect to be rewarded based on the name of the institution where they got their degree instead of what value they actually add at the company through their work...

If the amount of cash in your pocket is limited, and you want the greatest degree of control over your accurate rifle project, make it a Savage. If money is more freely available and you belong in the Remington camp, and give a greedy and shoddy company your loyalty, fine. I know which way I vote with my money and I am not rewarding mediocrity. When my ship comes in it will be a Stiller or a Pierce or a Shilen - manufacturers who deliver on the promise of what Remington once was.