Need some seasoned advice!

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by boattailed bandit, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. boattailed bandit

    boattailed bandit Well-Known Member

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    So I am not only new to this forum, but am relatively new to long range shooting. In my part of the country we usually have a max shot of up to 200 yards. However, thanks to the new amazing pipelines (sarcasm), we have a lot more range available. I currently have a Browning A-bolt in 270 win that I have hunted with since I was 12 and have harvested lots of deer and a fair amount of coyotes. I have a bushnell scope, not sure of the exact model, and I am looking for a replacement. Im on a budget ($200) to keep the missus happy. Only real requirements are external adjustable turrets that can be reset to zero for my click adjustments, atleast 10x, and not overly heavy. Like I said, Im relatively new and don't want the wool pulled over my eyes with some tacticool piece of garbage. I need something that will make me proud and will allow me to take those white flaggers up to 600 yards. Also I plan to buy a .308 soon and the scope will transfer to it. So it needs to work well with both. Any advice would be great.

    Thanks folks,
    BTB
     
  2. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    The only scope in that price range is a fixed 10x mildot Bushnell at Midway. But I owned one and strongly suggest you stick with what you have until you can save up at least $450. From that price upwards you can get a scope with a decent amount of internal adjustment and turrets you can actually rely on. After my experience with trying to zero the bushnell and the undershooting, overshooting and then shifting after firing a few rounds, I would never want to touch one of those turrets in the field, ever.

    The Vortex Viper HS Long range scope is in my opinion the best value for money available (was voted that way by customers at optics planet too). Has 75min of elevation (4-16x50), 50min of windage, an exposed elevation turret and a capped windage turret. $599 for the 4-16x50LR , $489 for the 4-16x44 (50 min elevation, 50min windage) , $540 for the 4-16x50 with capped turrets

    The only negative with the HS models is that elevation adjustment is 1/2 MOA. That gives you 24min per rotation of the elevation turret (high speed they say)..
     

  3. boattailed bandit

    boattailed bandit Well-Known Member

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    westcliffe01

    Thanks for the info! I love my bushnell, but it was before finger adjustments. So its annoying counting clicks and then counting back with a dime in your hand. Ill stick with what I have for now until I can afford something a little more.

    One other question to those out there, whats the best starter 308 out there? Im looking into a Rem 700 sps, but I had an older 700 in 270 that was just horrible. Im not gonna say it ruined me on them, but I am definitely more hesitant. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
     
  4. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    My first bolt action rifle was a Remington 700. I paid a lot of money for it, and I paid a lot more money accessorizing it (trigger, stock, bedding etc) but I never got it to shoot. Finally the only things left were to accurize the action and fit a match barrel and since the accurizing leaves the barrel thread size non standard it also means all the barrels have to be individually custom made. So that ends up working out to a cost of between $800-$1000 (including the match barrel).

    Fortunately I had already done a few Savage barrel swaps by then and I knew that I can get excellent quality Savage "prefit" match barrels for $350 that require no gunsmith work whatsoever. I bought a receiver wrench and a special wrench for the barrel nut, so except for head space gauges I have everything I need. The head space gauges are $30 each, so no big deal.

    So I have got rid of all of my Remington rifles and now work exclusively with the Savage. In most cases a factory Savage rifle model 10 or 12 will work pretty well from the factory, especially anything with a varmint style barrel. Today I usually look for suitable used donor rifles. I recently paid $285 for a 270Win model 110 (long action) which I then got a new stock for ($170) a match barrel from Shilen ($350 at Northland Shooters Supply) and a NSS recoil lug and barrel nut (about another $60).

    I can assure you that the rifle put together from those parts will shoot better than I will ever be fully capable of exploiting. The 308 I just did, I recently shot a 1/4" group at 100 yards. My first ever. There were several prior that were slightly bigger trending downwards as I became more familiar with it. I do not even have 30 rounds downrange with this rifle yet and it has only been cleaned once so far...

    Wideners has a model 110 in 6.5x284 for a little over $700. You should give that one some consideration. After 1200 to 2000 rounds it will be ready for a re-barrel, but I think you would have a bond with it by then...

    Widener's Reloading and Shooting Supply INC
     
  5. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    If I knew of a scope that met your specs at $200, I would buy one right now. The closest I can come is a Burris E1 3-9x40 ($249) or a Burris C4 3-9x40 ($299). Both scopes have excellent optics (for that price) and repeatable finger turrets.

    I've compared the Burris 3-9x40 side-by-side against the Bushnell 10x40 and the Burris scope has higher contrast. Plus it has a variable magnification. It's definitely worth a few extra bucks.

    The E1 gives you a good ballistic compensated reticle that is designed for 0-500 yds, but you can stretch it to 600 yds by zeroing at 200 yds. The C4 gives you a reticle for holding off wind, a standard elevation turret, and a custom ballistic compensated turret.

    I own a few Burris scopes (Fullfield II, Fullfield E1, MTAC). I can get anything I want at a discount and yet I continue to buy Burris scopes when I need a good, clear, high contrast image and don't want to make a big investment.

    http://www.highpoweroptics.com/burris-c-694_701.html
     
  6. boattailed bandit

    boattailed bandit Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the info folks. Its definitely got me moving in the right direction. Ill let yall know how it turns out, and hopefully get some good shots this year.gun)
     
  7. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    For under $200....These are great little scopes.

    Simmons Whitetail Classic Rifle Scope 6.5-20x 50mm Adjustable

    I have one on my .17 HMR for varmints. I also have 2 other older Simmons Aetec Whitetail 4-12x42 scopes. One is my my Ruger 10/22 and the other is on my other .17 HMR. However, I did have one of them on my 6 lb. Ruger 7mm RemMag, and it did just fine handling the recoil for many years, until recently, when the POI started to shift, then I put it on one of my .17 HMR's and put a new scope on the Ruger 7Mag.

    Other options in the $200-300 range are:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/38...first-focal-illuminated-mil-dot-reticle-matte

    This one is a bit more expensive, but would be a nice addition to your Browning...

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/98...50mm-side-focus-first-focal-xlr-reticle-matte
     
  8. boattailed bandit

    boattailed bandit Well-Known Member

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    MudRunner2005

    The simmons definitely looks like a good possibility. Thanks for the lead on that. Im wanting one in mil dots so that works out great. Next question would be do yall prefer mil dots or BDC reticle, or just straight cross hairs? Like I said, I plan on dialing in my range, but Im wanting the mils so I can judge range.
     
  9. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    I prefer MOA reticles, but luckily I can use both MOA or Milradian systems. If I had the choice between BDC or Mil-Dot......I'd go Mil-Dot.

    But everyone has their preference. You might prefer a BDC or just regular crosshairs.

    If you plan on hunting with Mils or MOA, and you have an iPhone, download the BulletDrop+ app for your iPhone or iPod Touch. You can input your load data and it will give you a nice drop-chart and you can choose if you want the chart in Inches, Mils, or MOA. It's pretty cool, and it's only like $1.99...Comes in REAL handy. Also, get you a nice lazer rangefinder to help get your distance as accurate as possible for dialing up.

    If you want a good scope that has Mil-Dot, that you can dial up with target turrets, this would be a better option than the Simmons.

    Konus M-30 Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 6.5-25x 44mm Side Focus 1/10

    They are very hefty scopes and very rigid in construction, so they aren't as light as some of the higher-end scopes. But they will do the job.

    I have the big brother to that scope (8.5-32x52) on my Rem 700 5R .308 Win for range shooting, and it has been on there for 1½ years now, and is still going strong. Granted, the glass is not the clearest and sharpest. But for a $330-350 scope it is a good buy, and has lots of features.
     
  10. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Double Post....
     
  11. boattailed bandit

    boattailed bandit Well-Known Member

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    MudRunner2005

    Once again thanks for the info. The konus is a little out of my price range, but still a possibility. Im starting to realize there isn't much of a way to be a budget long range hunter. HAHAHA. Anyways, one last question to bother you guys with. Is a heavy barrel necessary? I know that a heavy barrel is stiffer, but rifles such as the M1903 and the M1-D (scoped garand) were shot successfully at long ranges with what ill call a "normal" barrel. So is it a deal breaker or just an added advantage?
     
  12. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    I tried to be one, myself, and also learned quickly you really do have to pay to play in this sport. You can't really cut corners, or else you'll fall behind the pack. LOL

    Granted, I don't have any Nightforces or Schmidt & Benders or anything like that on any of my rifles (wish I did), but sometimes the nice mid-priced scopes ($899-1,299) will do just fine.

    I learned real quick that alot of the guys on here seem to have plenty of play cash.....I, on the other hand, do not. So it's hard to keep pace, but guys like us will never be on track with most of these guys who can go buy a $3,500 scope on a whim. We'd have to win the lotto to keep up with alot of these guys, as far as money and guns go.

    A huge bull barrel is not necessarily necessary for LR hunting and shooting, but they make life ALOT easier and your shots more accurate from the added weight and stiffness. Also, the thicker barrel is more dense, therefore less susceptable to barrel harmonics causing shots to be thrown all over the place.

    I am a firm believer that if you're shooting over 500 yards, you need atleast a Weatherby Accumark contour barrel, which is .770" at 26" finished length, which is a fairly rigid and solid piece of stainless steel.

    I do prefer my Remington 700 Sendero contour barrels (my favorite), and the Rem M24/Mil contour barrels, too.
     
  13. boattailed bandit

    boattailed bandit Well-Known Member

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    MudRunner2005

    Once again thanks for the info. And I got the feelin these boys have a little more play in their pocket than I do. LOL. I was wondering about the slightly thicker barrels I had been seeing and was planning on going down that road anyways, so that helps me make the decision. I also decided to stay with my .270 win, although its not the all holy .308 win, I know the rounds limitations well and I already make my own handloads for it so its less reloading supplies Ill have to buy.
     
  14. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Since you already have a long action with a standard magazine and standard bolt face, you could always turbocharge that .270 a little bit, by stepping on up to the .280 Ackley Improved... You get 7mm RemMag ballistics out of a non-magnum cartridge. Also, 1,000 yard deer, sheep, and antelope sized game capabilities, ALOT of high BC long range bullets to choose from, and extremely flat trajectory. It is basically a .280 Rem (which uses a 7mm bullet) but with blown out walls and a short, sharp neck that builds good pressure (which gives it the good ballistics).

    I am fixing to build one myself. I have 2 7Mags, but I have always been intrigued by the .280 AI.

    All you will need to change on your .270 is the barrel. Order a .284 / 7mm 1:9 twist barrel in the brand & contour of your choice. Have the smith chmber to .280 AI SAAMI spec, float the barrel, bed the action, and you're set! I would go with a Douglas Air-Gauged Premium stainless steel barrel, cut down to 26" finished length. That will be a #7 contour barrel (great for LR shooting and hunting), and will be a reasonably inexpensive and accurate build. You should be able to get that barrel blank, chambering, and all the smith work for around $450-500, and put that Konus 8.5-32x52, some TPS rings and the EGW 20 MOA base, and the reloading equipment, and you will be in a long range build for under $1,000. You can't beat that!

    For reloading you'll need 7mm bullets, .280 AI 40* shoulder dies, and some Nosler .280 AI brass.

    Simple as pie!