need some reloadingadvice on my 6mm-284

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by carverelli, Sep 19, 2005.

  1. carverelli

    carverelli Active Member

    Messages:
    28
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Haven't posted for over a year, but I'm starting back to work on my project. I'll get you guys up to date on my project so you might be able to lend your expertise. Loading for this cartridge is a little different as its way overbore and throat life is short. here's the specs:
    M700 Rem short action
    1:8 twst 29"x 1 1/4 stainless Lilja barrel w/ a Mbrake
    action trued and cleaned up my Dennis Olsen, Plains,MT
    .268 neck
    skim bedded in a HS Precision stock w/ 2 inches of the chamber area bedded also. I put 2 thicknesses of elec tape on the front and sided of the recoil lug when I bedded it in Marinetex
    I've necked down Norma brass with Redding dies and trimmed the necks down so the loaded round is .002 smaller than chamber size. Bullets are moly coated 107 gr MK's. From everything I've gathered these are a good place to start. The first chamber on this barrel had a deep throat and I couldn't reach the lands. This time I sent dummy round w/ the gun and Dennis chambered it so I had room to chase the lands as they were eroded away. He noted there was significant erosion already and it wouldn't take me long to burn it up some more. He actually cut the throat less than the dummy round I sent w/ the barrel.
    I have a 12x42 BR nightforce scope in Mark IV rings on 20 MOA tapered two piece bases from Ken Farell. I've also drilled out the sling swivel on the butt and poured hot lead in the hollow stock. Finished weight is right around 20 lbs.
    Questions would be what powder, weight and how deep to seat these VLD bullets. I've taken some of my cases and used green got and some cream of wheat to fire form. It helped a little with runout on the casenecks. Most are under .004. I was going to try the cases that had as much as .007 runout and see how much difference it made.
    Also, what the minimum distance I should test these loads. I mean is 100 yards useless, or should I move out to 500 right away?(I haven't sighted in the scope since I got it back from NF. They went completely through it as I was ready to sell it because my Leupold on my AR was more clear.
    I've used rl 22 and got ok results, but I haven't shot it w/ the new chamber either. You folks on this board have way more experience w/ this stuff than I do. In Fact 50driver sorta talked me into building this beast a few years ago, but my long distance dreams have yet to be realized.

    Post Extras:

    Pages: 1
     
  2. uncleB

    uncleB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    558
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    carverelli,
    it does not sound like you need much help,107gr SMK's and RL22 is the magic combination for my rifle and I am just about to the end of my second barrel. my barrel is a Pac-Nor 3groove that literaly will vaporize 105gr A-Max and Berger's,my next barrel will not be a 3 groove (too hard on bullet's)
    with this combination I shot a rock chuck at 1515yards last summer,with the set-up that you have it is capable of the same. good luck,
    UB
    p.s. my gun refuses to shoot well unless the bullet is in the lands .005 or slightly more.
     

  3. carverelli

    carverelli Active Member

    Messages:
    28
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Uncle B , thanks for the reply. I usually like to experiment w/ all different powders and bullets, seating depths and what not, but I really caan't afford to w/ this big of overbore cartridge. And I haven't messed with anything out of the ordinary twist rate ,vld etc. I was just hoping someonr like yourself w/ actuall experience w. the cartridge mentioned would affirm my suspicions before I burned up more powder and throat in the chamber
     
  4. Iron Worker

    Iron Worker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,759
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    My 6x284 I call it the heavy Predator rifle Remi 700 Sendareo. Hart Varmint contour BBL 26 1/4" 1in 10 twist.52.5grs of H4350 behind 87grHornady V-Max.produces close to 3600FPS.Shot a yote at 341yds looked like he was stuck by lightning. So a 3 grove rips up bullets.Thinking for my next BBL a Broughton 1in 10. They say there're barrels are made differently and some how are faster.
     
  5. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

    Messages:
    2,844
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    I have an 8T Broughton 5C barrel and use the 115 Tubb with H-4831SC.
     
  6. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Carerelli,

    I have a 30" 1-8 Lilja 3 groove on my 6-284 and like Uncle B its a terror on thin jacketed match bullets. It does however shoot the 107 gr SMK extremely well up to 3600 fps(Yes that is a very hot load. Only reached this in load development and toned her back to 3450 fps with RL-22).

    RL-22 has been the best powder I have tried in my 6-284 with the 107 gr SMK.

    Since then I have built several 6-284 for customers and currently my recipe for extreme accuracy with the 6-284 with the heavy bullets is to drop to a slightly slower 1-9 twist and use a 6 groove rifling system, Lilja is my preferred choice but there are many out there that are great barrels.

    This slightly slower twist is plenty for the 105-107 gr class bullets and is also easier on the bullets with the 6 groove rifling.

    When I rebarrel my personal rifle it will have a barrel to these specs.

    If your looking to shoot 70-80 gr bullets at the heaviest, the 1-12 or even 1-13 twist work extremely well for very tight groups.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  7. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

    Messages:
    2,844
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Hey Kirby,
    What would be your opinion for the 6-284 in the specialty handgun configuration I have with the 115 Tubb?
    RL-22 also?
     
  8. sewwhat89

    sewwhat89 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    773
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Can you give some details/pics? What kind of advice can you offer about some extreme pistols like this for paper punching and hunting? I have shot only some 454 Casull and heavy 45 colt/44 mag for hunting with pistols, but my Glock 40 and Wilson 45 ACP are the only pistols I have used to kill game with. I espcially like the prospects of this combo, http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek049.html . What are your thoughts?
     
  9. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Ernie,

    Personally I think the 6mm284 is pretty extreme in capacity to bore volume for a handgun length barrel.

    You also know that even though I think this I seldom let it stop me from experimenting and pushing the line as we will be doing very soon to the EXTREME with your new project /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!

    That said, I also believe it is much easier to drive a heavy bullet to good velocity in a short barrel then it is to drive a light bullet to high velocity in a short barrel.

    If I were to build myself a 6-284 in a handgun, it would be designed for at least a 110 gr bullet and better yet something like the wildcat 120 gr ULD RBBT.

    In a handgun, you will still get the same velocity advantage as a rifle does with certain powders. TO get the most velocity, possible we are looking to keep the highest amount of pressure behind that bullet until it leaves the muzzle. To get this the slower powders still produce the top velocity in extreme handguns.

    Only problem with using slow burners in a handgun are mainly muzzle blast which can be severe. It really makes a brake work amazingly well though!!!

    So for the combination you referred to, I would start with Rl-22 and possibly even play with some H-1000 or Rl-25 and see how they performed. Retumbo may be a bit slow but if the other two performed well I would possibly test this one as well.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  10. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Sewwhat89,

    I will let XP answer this in detail but I will say that in a properly set up single shot handgun, you will give up very little in big game taking power out to 500 yards easily when compared to a rifle.

    In the accuracy department, most of the custom XP-100s I have build would put most custom sporter rifles to shame in group size even out to 500 yards.

    Most limiting factor from here out, handgun scopes and being able to clearly see your target. XP can tell you about optic options to solve this problem though.

    My current deer handgun is one of my XP-100s chambered in 6.5 WSM. It rips the 120 gr Ballistic Tip out at 3100 fps and with groups in the 1/3 moa range out to 400 yards. Plus it has the recoil of a 22 LR handgun, heavy handgun at that!!! Its is quite a bit louder though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  11. sewwhat89

    sewwhat89 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    773
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    [ QUOTE ]
    Sewwhat89,

    My current deer handgun is one of my XP-100s chambered in 6.5 WSM. It rips the 120 gr Ballistic Tip out at 3100 fps and with groups in the 1/3 moa range out to 400 yards. Plus it has the recoil of a 22 LR handgun, heavy handgun at that!!! Its is quite a bit louder though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!!

    Kirby Allen(50)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I bet it is! That matches/exceeds the 260 in a rifle. Muzzle break too I guess?

    Can you still get new XP-100 actions to build pistols like this or do you have to use a donor or custom order a BAT action /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif?
     
  12. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

    Messages:
    2,844
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Kirby,
    My 6-284 XP-100 was built primarily to shoot the 115 DTAC. MV's currently in 2700+ range. Of course will consider Wildcat bullets for LR hunting, but am working on 1k+ PD's and potentially 1 mile (will be shooting at 5000 ft. + Elevation).

    Where to start concerning SP's/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    Remington no longer makes XP-100's, but you can find them used still /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    I own XP's and other types of specialty handguns that could be described in terms of LR Shooting/Hunting in these cartridges:
    8T 6mm-284, two 8T 6.5-284's, 9T 284 Win, 7T 7mmWSM (still waiting on it), 10T 7.82 Patriot and a soon to be built a 1-7 twist 7mm Dakota.
    Several of my SP's will group in the .1's-.3's @ 100 and .75 inches to 1 inch @ 300 yards, 1.5 inches @ 600 yards and 5 shot groups @ 1k (During IBS match for record score) 9-12 inch range. For those who have done the 1k game you will understand when you have four shots in the 6 inch range or better and one that moves you out several inches /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    Most of mine are the old center-grip XP's (single-shot action) that have a H-S Precision stock ( I do have a one rear-grip McMillan BR stock though.
    One way to think of them performance wise (rule of thumb) is if you have a 284 Win. case you will get 7mm-08 rifle performance, or just a tad more. If you have 7.82 Patriot you will get hot 30-06 rifle performance or light 300 WM.
    When you have a stiff action and short stiff barrels with the same added machine work that accuracy smith's do to BR rifles you can do to a bolt pistol action. You can shoot sub 10 MOA groups at 1k with the 3-12 Burris LER scope. One can also have a 36x Leupold converted by Wally Siebert into a 20x LER handgun scope. Another thing that i have done for some time is use high mag. rifle scopes on my SP's. I get a full field of view and then pull back. Brakes are a big help here, especially with the big boys.
    Well, maybe this will wet your appetite. There is a forum that is dedicated to handguns and primarily to specialty handguns Specialty Pistols
     
  13. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

    Messages:
    2,844
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
  14. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

    Messages:
    2,844
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    I guess I have said all of this, to simply say if you build a specialty handgun the way you would a LR rifle that it will be just as capable as a rifle but with the lower MV given a shorter barrel. Ther eis also an added difficulty in field and bench shooting, but that is what makes it more challenging and fun. I don't own a centerfire rifle, just because I like shooting this SP's so much. Hence, my user name xphunter (A guy who uses XP's to hunt with /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif).