NEED SOME INFO, ANY ASSISTANCE APPRECIATED

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ian M, Jul 24, 2005.

  1. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    Want to increase my knowledge base on the reaction to bullet impact - depending on location, systems hit.
    Interested to know what you guys look for, what you feel are reactions to bullet hits on:
    ..nervous system - brain, spine
    ..respiratory system - lungs, oesophagus (Spelling?)
    ..circulatory system - heart, major blood vessels
    ..skeletal system - legs, shoulder only, hip only
    ..digestive system - also known as gut shots

    What do you look for or have seen re classic chest shot, head-on shot, rear-ender, raking shots.
    I have seen deer and caribou stand-up on their hind legs and flip over backward from a heart shot, stuff like that.

    Please mention any pertinent info, critter, cartridge, distance, reaction, blood trail or lack of. Any big game species.

    Dave King, not just BANG-FLOP, we don't all shoot as deadly as you do /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  2. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

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    Ian I have a few.
    Most spine shots I have seen usualy end up with bang flop but I have seen a few that dropped and then regained their footing in either the front or rear and tried to push or pull themselves to cover.
    Heart lung shots have been run of the mill jump kick or kinda stumble a little then either fall there or run a little. I did have one that sat down as if he was taking a break then his head followed his hind end to the ground.
    The onside shoulder shots that only hit that one shoulder was like a flinch and then either falling there or a medium pace retreat as his front end went further down until he plowed a small streak of ground with his chin.
    Every gut shot I have seen has been back bowing up kinda like he was punched in the stomach and then a weird can't make up their mind which way they want to go run. ( zig zag style )
    Thats all I can remember for now.
    Sorry Ian I forgot to list that these were all whitetail deer from N.C averaging 100 pounds for a couple of does up to around 175 for the largest buck. I have more but don't have time to go into great detail now but will try to elaborate more on some other shots I have seen.
     

  3. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Just my experiences all on Mule Deer and 1 Moose. All shots with 270 Win- 130 Sierra Boat Tail @ ~3200 MV:


    ..nervous system - brain, spine <font color="blue">(Head Shot)- Instand drop, extended kicking action </font>

    ..respiratory system - lungs, oesophagus (Spelling?) <font color="blue">Instant drop - instant kill </font>

    ..circulatory system - heart, major blood vessels <font color="blue">White Tail Doe 25yds 54 Cal ML - Hit juggler veins both sides. Deer just bedded down. No exterior bleeding. Walked up to it,it was though I wasn't there. Figured it all out when I did the skinning. Strangest experience I've ever had.


    Young bull moose. Perfect heart shot (removed heart from all connecting piping)60 yds. Complete penetration. NO, I mean No reaction what ever. It just walked off. </font>


    ..skeletal system - legs, shoulder only, hip only <font color="blue">No Experience on this one </font>


    ..digestive system - also known as gut shots <font color="blue">Initial symptom is the sinking feeling ya get when it sounds like you hit a melon. Deer humps up. Gets sick and if not pressured will lay down and will be hard to brush out. </font>


    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  4. nelson

    nelson Well-Known Member

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    Hello Ian A couple of deer seasons ago my friends dad flushed a big white tail doe out of some scrub. The deer was shot with a .270 and a 130 gr bullet. Any way this deer after having both her lungs torn to shreds by that bullet ran about 40 yards like nothing happened. She went to jump a fence on the pasture land across from us she died in mid air and just came skidding to a stop on the pasture.
     
  5. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    Great information, please keep it coming. By far the worst situation for me is when you are not sure of a hit, absolutely no reaction, sometimes the whump is hidden by the noise of the shot - yet the shot broke clean and you should have placed the bullet well. Apparently a variable is just how revved-up the critter is, is he aware of you, is he calmly feeding or chewing his cud, is he running like a raped-ape and heading for the next county, is he P'd-off and coming for you.
     
  6. dcb

    dcb Well-Known Member

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    white tail 100 to 150 weight
    head shot base of ear 200gr xtp drop like a rock no movement.
    neck shot right front 140gr 270 took out 8" of neck bone bullet recovered on opposity sholder just under the skin, deer flopped and rolled over 3 or4 times it was stiff legged.
    gut shot no reaction, 140gr 270 little blood almost gave up, tracked the deer for about a mile. head shot did it in.
    double lung shot 200yrs. with 200gr. xtp drag right front leg was ony indication it was hit. ran about 100yrs and laid down head shot to finish it off.
    12ga 1oz slug at 50 yd. double lung shot same as above just drag the right leg and ran abut 75 yrs before it piled up dead.
    25/06 100grbt sholder heart shot 65yrd fliped and rolled up under a hedge.
    rear shot left ham with a 130gr bt 270 blew off the leg deer wend down but was trying to drag its self off, ended with a head shot.
    130gr Bt 270 high sholder spine shot almost blew the deer in half it spun around and expired
    12ga 1oz slug from tree. slug entered high right behind sholder and broke opposite sholder, deer went right down his right leg was going back and foward like he was trying to run.
    25/05 100bt at 40yds lung heart shot. deer ran straight at me with a slight lean tail down ran 50yrs and piled up kicked a couple times and was done
    is this what you are looking for?
     
  7. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    I agree with everyone else's observation and add two of mine that are different.

    OK Two stories

    Infamous Scapula Hydrostatic shock story

    Back in 1980, a friend and I set up in the dark on a ridge line about 600 yards away from another ridge line that was being used by a herd of about 5-6 mule deer bucks. I had a 7mm Wby with over max load and 162 gr HPBT match bullet running around 3100-3200 fps. He had a 7mm Rem Mag with 145gr Speer. Contrary deer were not on their ridge line but ours and worse yet they were at the bottom of the rock face we were on. Instead of the shot being 600 yds it was 30 yds and at a 45 degree downward angle. We each picked out a deer and fired together and both deer went down immediately. His was dead, but mine got up and ran off. We tracked it for about half a mile to a mile and my friend finally got a shot through the trees at it running and killed it. Inspection revealed the following:

    The thin skinned, high BC match bullet had produced a crater on the scapula about two inches deep and twelve inches in diameter. It had not broken the scapula nor had any fragments penetrated into the chest cavity. The extreme force of the bullet disintegration had very nearly cauterized the wound and there was only minimal blood loss. You can make the calculation but this was over 3000 ft # of hydrostatic energy applied and it only caused the deer to fall down. This was only a medium sized deer ( western 3 point or eastern 6 point). You will notice in all of my posts on bullets that I always recommend having a close range bullet in the chamber and then switching to your long range bullet. This was a very gruesome episode that I do not wish to ever repeat.

    Second Story

    HOW BUFFALOBOB GOT HIS NAME

    About three weeks after the above incident, I went down to the Four Corners area hunting wild buffalo in the Henry Mountains. I was one of twenty five people who had drawn a permit to hunt Utah’s wild buffalo herd. Loaded up the 7mm wby with 175 partitions and as much powder as I could get in the case and survive the ignition. Probably about 3000 fps and about 3400# of energy. Gun was scoped with a Redfield 6X18 w/ double stadia rangefinder.

    The hunt was supposed to be just drive around in your truck and pick out the one you want to shoot,but it was hot and the buffalo were in the trees so it was down and dirty regular hunting (really fun). So after about 5 days I finally see a pair at the edge of a chaining. I ease down the ridge line through the pinyons and come out about 50 yds from them. Both are bulls and one is massive. I am not afraid of much in the world but he was so big that I looked around to see if there was a tree I could climb because I suddenly had a feeling that I did not have enough gun. Plus, I had a single shot and he had his buddy with him. Being nothing, if not determined, I kneeled down and slide the safety off and tried to put the cross hairs on his shoulder. Well at a minimum setting of six power at 50 yds I could not hardly find anything in the scope except dark brown hair. Eased my finger onto the Ruger #1’s trigger which was down to about 6-8 ounces and let him have a 175 gr partition right behind the shoulder. He quit eating grass and looked at me. His friend turned around and looked at me. I could not see blood or anything, so I eased another round into the chamber and went through the exercise of trying to find an aiming point and pulled the trigger again. This time he took two steps forward and continued to look at me. The young bull jumped and ran up the slope about 10-15 yds and stopped. There was still no sign of any blood or evidence that I had even hit him so I was very confused. After about a minute, I took another round out of my pocket and put it in the chamber. I went through the whole exercise of trying to pick a good aiming point but the six power scope at 50 yds was just giving me fits and I finally fired a third time. He took on more step this time angling a little so he was no longer broad side. His buddy jumps and runs again but in a semi circle and is now back at about 40 yards snorting and pawing the dirt and just acting very bad. I only have one permit and can not afford to shoot him so I take a round out of my pocket and find a nice rock in front of and under the young bulls nose and shoot the rock. It explodes and the young bull starts bucking around like crazy but does not run off. The old bull is still standing there very still. I find another rock near the young bull and shoot it. The old bull just stands there and the young bull bucks around again and runs off to maybe 70 yards. I reach into my pocket and count the number of bullets I have left and get this sinking feeling in my stomach because there are not many in there. About this time blood starts to run out of the old bulls nose so I am encouraged that I must have been getting into the chest cavity and I shoot him again. And he still stands there. The young bull is still up on the ridge acting stupid so I explode another rock on him and he departs. The old bull has blood just pouring out of his nose and is obviously done for and I am feeling bad about him standing there suffering so with one of my last few bullets I shoot him again even though I hate shooting animals very many times. This time he falls over and dies.

    Inspection reveals first four bullets penetrate through the chest cavity including lungs and one even cuts a groove through the outside of the heart. Fifth bullet penetrates the lungs and breaks the far side shoulder. All five bullets were recovered under the far side hide. All five bullets exhibited classic Nosler partition mushroom. Total energy absorbed by the buffalo was around 17,000 ft pounds. While green the horns missed Boone and Crocket by 1.25 points. This bull stood there for over five minutes and maybe up to ten without flinching or anything with the muzzle blast and impact of a fairly substantial gun.
     
  8. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    BuffaloBob,
    Great stories, I have a buffalo story that I almost prefer to forget. Had to kill a wild, free-roaming buffalo a long time ago up in northern Saskatchewan. After four 150 grain Silvertips to the noggin he was still walking around, fortunately the fifth shot went into the ear canal and got to his brain. Very uptight situation since I would have been in deep doodoo if he had got away wounded. Wrong bullet, wrong shot placment. We sank a Dodge 4x4 in a swamp, bent the prop on a Cessna 180, filled the trunk of the bosses' Chev car with buffalo blood, ruined the backseat upholstery of the Chevy when a cooler of Northern Pike leaked (fish slime is about like acid to Chevy seats), busted the overhead hoist at the abatoir and then to top it all off, the cape went rotten when the taxidermists walk-in freezer failed. Just another field trip in the good old days.
     
  9. gonehuntingagain

    gonehuntingagain Well-Known Member

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    All of these were with a 300Win Mag

    White tail deer, broadside 75 yards, 165gr ballistic tip @3250fps. One shot to the heart - drop on the spot, no quivering or kicking just plain dead. Only part of the heart that I could find was the tip of it, about the diameter of a quarter and 1/2 inch thick - the rest of it was liquified. bloodiest deer I have ever gutted.

    Mule deer, broadside, same load @ 75 yards. Double lung hit and ran for 75 yards before falling. The deer did not jump at the shot - just ran and didn't act like it was hit. Just a couple of drops of blood at first, then a few bigger drops, then it looked like someone took a can of spray paint to every bush it went by.

    Mule deer, , broadside but moving, same load as above, 25 yards. Liver shot, deer didn't run, but walked fast and looked like it was crouching - first time I had seen that. The deer ran to my left like this then back to the right and fell over and looked like it was trying to run while laying on its side. Didn't look for a blood trail since it never left my sight.

    Mule deer, 200gr Accubond, quartering slightly away at 437 yards, hit one lung, bullet just missed the other lung on the way out. Deer kicked once and ran for 20 yards over the top of the hill. Only found one drop of blood on a branch behind where the deer was standing, very few drops on the way to the deer.

    Hope this helps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  10. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    Ian I'll mention some that stuck in my head for one reason or another.

    I was sitting in a field and a curious 6 pt. buck walked up to me. As I moved to a kneeling position, which I had never practice from, I sent an arrow perfectly into the center of his guts. He took two quick steps then did the back arch belly scrunch, and very gingerly walked about 60 yards into some pines were I recovered him about 3 hours later.

    I've had a couple of hip shots on running deer which results in a instant drop with an atempt to regain footing.Mostly they just get there front end up and take a finishing shot.

    Most of my double lung shots at running deer show very little reaction other than sometimes they speed up for a short distance, and then slow down and sucum to the wound.

    I shot one buck on a very hard run with a 243. Hitting him just below the white patch, but from perfectly broadside. The bullet went through the very front of his neck cutting jugular viens/arteries. He did a very impressive cartwheel and regained his feet, going about 40 yards before colapsing.

    I was called to do a deer farm extermination for CWD purposes a few yeard ago. I used a 223 with 55 gr Soft points at 2950fps 16" barrel. One deer in particular That I remember was shot perfectly in the heart. she did a small rear leg kick trotted about 35 yards and colapsed. The whole way her tail wipped and twitched violently. This trait I have seen enough times that when it happens I'm 95% sure where the bullet or arrow went.

    Hope this helps.
     
  11. chain

    chain Well-Known Member

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    Neck shots with .300 win all signs of life are gone before sound of shot is gone. Frontal chest shots result in pretty much instananeous death , however a very messy gutting job.
     
  12. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Want to increase my knowledge base on the reaction to bullet impact - depending on location, systems hit.
    Interested to know what you guys look for, what you feel are reactions to bullet hits

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ian this is a no brainer. If I get a hit on any game I look for high fives all around because it dosen't happen very often. Some times it is a handshake and a word of congradulations. Usually my brother and I have a celebratory smoke. Well, not usually, we only did this once. But we would do it again if I got another deer and he was there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif




    Sorry, I couldnt resist.
    I'm shutting up now.
     
  13. tdv75098

    tdv75098 Well-Known Member

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    Ian, just one hunt in particular to relay to you. Several years ago I took my nephew deer hunting and we watched a nice buck come to a pond and start drinking water. After the buck had drank his fill, he stepped up where my nephew could get a clear shot. He had buck fever and made a bad shot, but the buck dropped dead on the spot, and never even twitched. He hit the buck broadside, low gut, with a 140gr corelock bullet from a 7 rem mag. The shot was only 75 yds. The hydrostatic shock of the bullet connecting with the water the buck had drank killed him instantly. Just one interesting observation for your info.
     
  14. joe boyd

    joe boyd Active Member

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    Ian,
    this post doesn't fit your parameters, but it is the oddest rifle kill I've ever experianced. I am an old bowhunter so I like low heart lung area shots. The kind of bloodtrails a blind man can follow.

    Several years ago I had tagged out except for a doe tag. My wife wanted a stand I had seen a good 8 point the evening before so I opted to hunt one of my bowstands. For some dumb reason I took a steyr ssg match gun (.308) that had a 250 yd. zero . This gun was set up to shoot wheatfields with bi-pods. A doe appeared at 16 yd. I had the forend on my left knee and took a heartshot 3 inches above hairline. The deer took off and I heard her crash some 50 yd. away. When I walked up on her, she was stone dead and NO BLOOCTRAIL. I had forgotten about the guns zero, and at 16 yd. the 150 nosler b.t. only creased the hide barely exposing her sternum. No entry wound. My assumption was the shock must have stopped her heart.

    Odd but it really happened
    Joe