Need help interpreting results!

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Oliveralan, Jun 24, 2010.

  1. Oliveralan

    Oliveralan Well-Known Member

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    Sep 15, 2009
    Hey,

    I was just out shooting my .308win with 208 A-maxs and RL17. I need some help with the results....

    I shot all the shots through my chrono.

    All brass, powder charge, seating depth and neck tension were the same, I only whiched primers.

    Foulers (CCI BR2 Primer)
    2640 2645 2661 2640
    ES: 21
    SD: 9
    AVG: 2646

    CCI BR2
    2640 2650 2640 2656 2635 2656 2650 2640
    ES: 26
    SD:?
    AVG: 2645.5

    Fed GMM210
    2656 2666 2645 2682 2666 2656 2656 2661
    ES: 37, 10 (excluding two shots I think went whack)
    SD: ?
    AVG: 2661, 2658 (exclu. 2 shots)

    I shot 8 (4 and 4) took a break then repeated. All shots logged in order of shooting, shot one primer then the other throughout.

    Now, the Fed is looking promising with those two shots not counting (I was using brass that I hadn't prepped as well as I usual do).

    I only have one target in front of me right now with 2 4-shot groups one of each primer. At 200 yards the CCI has 3 clustered at .6" and one i pulled (called it). The Fed has two distinct pairs (about .4" CTC in each pair) but 1.2" of vertical between them. The two pairs are strung horizonally. It is two shots above two others.

    Now, which primer would you use based on my results?

    I will go shooting again in 2hours ( I love summer vacation :D)

    Oliver
     
  2. Oliveralan

    Oliveralan Well-Known Member

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    Sep 15, 2009
    Bump not much time left till leaving for next session! I have loaded 15more with fed 210s no bullets seated yet.. In my match brass this time. Will see if that removes the annomalies from my velocity data. Will shoot at 200 and 300.

    Any other suggestions?
     

  3. sniperjwt

    sniperjwt Well-Known Member

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    Dec 27, 2009
    let us know i am also useing the 208 in my 308 but not sure that im happy with it yet. I used FED 215 primers which seemed to work better for me but even after shooting a 3"group at 550 im still not convinced.
     
  4. Oliveralan

    Oliveralan Well-Known Member

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    Sep 15, 2009
    Fired my 15 loads with Fed 210Ms and things really fell apart. Crappy grounds and high ES... I will upload pics of targets tonight or tomorrow morning. Also tried some 175smks with RL15 and also shot bad. I believe my bore was just very fouled up after so many rounds down the tube.
     
  5. BillR

    BillR Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2002
    Interesting read. Try annealing your case necks. Your getting one or two each time that seems to be out of whack with the others. Could be bullet neck tension doing it. What was the temps when your shooting.
     
  6. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Me thinks your having too much fun shooting. I'm attempting to overcome a similar addiction.:D

    After the barrel is broken in, clean after every so many rounds, the rifle will tell you how many that is. I clean after twenty. WipeOut and/or Warthog with no brushes. 5 passes usually does it.

    I guess you're working for consistency and lower ESs.....

    "At 200 yards the CCI has 3 clustered at .6" and one i pulled (called it)." High ES must be the problem here?


    "The Fed has two distinct pairs (about .4" CTC in each pair) but 1.2" of vertical between them. The two pairs are strung horizonally. It is two shots above two others." Here I'd suspect variations in cheek weld and/or shoulder pressure. Possibly bipod loading if your using one.

    Another thing that may be revealing with this load would be to vary the powder charge up and then down on both sides of the current charge. I've found that at times a '|' shaped group can be changed to a '--' shaped group by changing powder weights. Some where in the middle is a '*' shaped group.

    If successful with this method be cautious of the narrowness of the node. Usually this doesn't give the consistent results of the OCW method.

    Have a fun summer! Summers are too short. Heck, life is too short. Enjoy it!
     
  7. cfvickers

    cfvickers Well-Known Member

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    Jun 18, 2010
    I really LOVE RL17 for its low SD's and the wonderful groups I get with it out of my 6.5-284 LRH. BUT, it requires cleaning after every 20 rounds. Shoots as well on shots 1 and two as it does on 10-11-12. no difference. After about 25-30 flyers every 3-4 shots apparently due to fouling, barrel will just look nasty, clean it and problem dissolves with the carbon fouling. If a very clean burning powder is necessary for you I would try VV N160 or H4350. My 6.5 doesn't like H4350 but does well with N160. Both burn very clean in all of my rifles suited to them. cleaning every 20 shots is no problem for me, but it may be for you. Just my experience, others may differ.
     
  8. Oliveralan

    Oliveralan Well-Known Member

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    Bill,
    temps ran from 104 to 86. Most shooting was done in 101-104F the last groups were in the evening at 86F.
    Annealing is some good advice! Need to borrow a buddy's blowtorch and give it a go. Now that I think about I do remember a few that felt different while seating them. I will take these out next time and run them through the chrono seperately.

    Roy,
    thanks you mentioned a lot of things I believes could have been the culprit. My cheek piece is great for prone, but was very uncomfortable off the bench. That could have been an issue, my shoulder was also pretty sore since I have fired 40rounds of 300 win mag before starting with the 308 :D and yes, I am having too much fun!!
    I tried a few loads above and below and this one at 48gr clearly groups the best. Normally it is a * shaped group!

    Cfvicker,
    I will try that Sunday, and also Saturday hopefully. I'm either shooting 1 or 2 f-class matches this weekend and I will clean between stages. Something I usualy don't do.
     
  9. Johnboy

    Johnboy Well-Known Member

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    Sep 25, 2009
    hey man CLEAN THE HELL OUT OF IT. you seem to have a fouled barrel.(bad)now with a cleaned barrel and the bullets I sent you try it again.if you can try newer brass.you may be at the end of your brass' life in the neck area.seems to be a factor of annealing after 4-5 times loading the brass.I just learned this in both 308 and 300wm.

    but make sure you play with the annealing on brass you will not be loading for your shooting needs.this way you want kill any good brass.

    again it sounds to me that you have about all you can handel.and that all may be in the mix.so cleaning the bore and newer brass should put two out of the 4 you have behind you.then you can work on the other two.me I will say the BR-2 primers are the wayh to go.when we shot together you put them all in one dime size hole at 100.to me your load is just right.we some times let the smaller things get to us,and that puts use into a loading game of hell.

    so take this in with all that you know my good friend and shoot the hell out of you loads and win one for all of us.