need advice on long range setup

[gphil]

I am just starting out with getting setup for long range shooting and I need some advice. I have a handful of questions that I need help with. I jut bought a Remington xcr 338 win mag. Its totally stock, and it has a 26 inch barrel. I hunt in northern Idaho, I encounter ranges from 20 yards to 1000 yards and i would like to be capable of shooting elk, deer, and black bear out to 400-500 yards. i bought a nikon monarch 4-16-42 with leupold mounts and bases. I have been reloading hornady 225grain sst with 70 grains IMR 4350. I havent got a chance to chronograph it but i believe it should be somewhere between 2800-3000fps. I also need my rifle not to be too bulky and packing friendly.

1st question
is this setup adequate to shoot out to 400-500 yards ethically?

2nd
I have heard that the in cheaper scopes the MOA adjustments arent accurate and might not come back to zero does anyone have any experience with a nikon monarch?

3rd
I have thought about getting a stock I'm not too sure on what to get yet. My price range is around $300. Whats your gies opinion on a hogue stock?
how does pillar or block bedding compare to full length aluminum bedding? does the vertical grip on a tactical style stock help accuracy at long range? How is a tactical style stock to shoot offhand?

4th
does a muzzle break rob velocity?

Thanks for the advice ill take all that i can get!

 

[AJ Peacock]

1) Yes, very capable out to and past 500yds.

2) For your usage, you won't need perfection when it comes to 'counting clicks'. Just about any reasonable scope will perform well enough. I'm sure folks with Nikon experience will chime in.

3) I've seen a LOT of rifles that shoot like a house a fire with their original stock, sometimes with just $25 worth of materials and an evening of elbow grease to make sure it was bedded correctly. If the stock is comfortable and the gun shoots, there is no reason to change it, unless you "want" to.

Edited:: If you don't NEED a different stock, take the money and buy a better scope. Remember, rule 1) Buy the best scope you can afford. Rule 2) use the rest of you money for a rifle.

4) No. But don't forget to wear hearing protection "EVERY TIME" if you hunt with a muzzle Brake. For the 338 Win Mag, I wouldn't add a brake if it didn't have one already.

AJ

 

[roninflag]

i prefer a brake on all my mags. i believe the xcr comes with a very stable stock from the factory.

 

[gphil]

Thanks for the advice everyone Ill take your advice into consideratin. I plan on looking into getting my rifle glass bedded this winter and practicing out to 500 yds now that hunting season is over. I ask about a muzzle break because i was layin down shooting up hill at a nice buck this winter and the gun dinged me in the forehead twice and and made me bleed and I missed haha so this winter im going to get some serious practice in. Thanks for the advice!

 

[royinidaho]

The brake, if a good one, will stop rearward motion at around an inch of travel. (never measured).

The longer the eye relief the better I like it.

The 338 RUM, 10 # rig, Holland QD brake, 300 SMKs @ 2730 touches the bill of my cap every time. Last setup step is raise the bill a bit.

 

[liltank]

Nikon's in my opinion are very reliable. I owned 2 Buckmaster scopes. One is the 4.5-14x40SF and the other was the 6-18x40 w/ SF and Target dot. Both returned reliably to the zero. I still have the 4.5-14. I sold the 6-18 for a Vortex Viper. The Monarch is suppose to be a better quality scope than the Buckmaster. I would use it and use it well. Make sure you get a 20MOA base. Nikon's don't have a lot of elevation for some reason. There is plenty to get to 500, but to get to 100 depending on how flat your rifle shoots, you will want the canted base. Make sure you get your trigger worked over to about 2-2.5# pull.

Tank

 

[gphil]

lil tank im not real sure what you mean by a 20MOA base, is this just a higher mounting base? and im not sure what a canted base is either.

I hear alot of talk on hear about sightron and vortex. how do these two brands stack up against leupold or the europeans or nikon? Are they around the same level as a leupold? or are they considered better?

Could a good gumsmith get my factory trigger below 3lb pull? I have a rem. 700 xcr I believe its the newer style trigger.

 

[liltank]

lil tank im not real sure what you mean by a 20MOA base, is this just a higher mounting base? and im not sure what a canted base is either. 20MOA or 20 minutes of angle base is canted or cut at an angle to add elevation adjustment to a scope. Technically if your has 50MOA of adjustment, and after sighting in you use up 20MOA to find your zero, the base in essence would put that back into your elevation adjustment. It's not perfect, but gives you an idea of what a canted base adds to your adjustments to your scope.

I hear alot of talk on hear about sightron and vortex. how do these two brands stack up against leupold or the europeans or nikon? Are they around the same level as a leupold? or are they considered better? Sightron and Vortex are very good optics for the money. Some swear they are better than Leupold and others say they are on par. I personally feel they are better than Nikon in the same price range, both offer more elevation than Nikon. I own a Nikon and like it, but I also own a Vortex Viper and love it. I have used a rifle with the Sightron and it is very good glass. Depending on the model of either the Leupold or the Sightron you chose, they are equal in quality in my opinion, but generally save a little money with Sightron. I personally am looking to get the Vortex PST, Weaver Tactical, or SIII for my next optic.

Could a good gumsmith get my factory trigger below 3lb pull? I have a rem. 700 xcr I believe its the newer style trigger. Yes, any competent gunsmith will be able to adjust your trigger to a crisp 2-3# pull.

Read the bold response

 

[gphil]

Alright i understand now thanks little tank ill have to look into a canted base if i get into extreme long range shooting. I also find that interesting that those scopes are that good of quality. I guess i never tend to hear much about them in northern idaho there arent even really a large supply of them in stores in my area

I recently heard that with 20 degrees farenheit change it will move your rifle a whole MOA per 20 degrees change. Do you know if this is true?

 

[roninflag]

I Do not have a nikon. mostly leup. but the monarch is one of the more expensive ones i believe and sghould be real good . i xcr has a good stock. if you google remington crisp you should be able to adjust the trigger yer self. i have shot quite a bit of long range and the light rifles give me trouble. if your ngroups at 400- and 500 are good to go, a 338 placed right i am sure is plenty.

 

[gphil]

ya the monarch is their top scope besides their tactical ones i believe. I will definately look into that remington crisp. Ive adjusted it some but it seemed like there was a very fine line inbetween it being dangerous. when i would work the bolt sometimes the pin wouldnt stay back. So ill have to look into that thanks

do any of you gies have any experience with a nikon rifle hunter 1000 or the bushnell arc 1200? im in the market for a ragne finder in the 300-400 dollar range. How important is the angle compenstating program in them can their be quite a bit of difference in steep angles with the angle compensating? compared to measureing a straight line?

 

[liltank]

do any of you gies have any experience with a nikon rifle hunter 1000 or the bushnell arc 1200? im in the market for a ragne finder in the 300-400 dollar range. How important is the angle compenstating program in them can their be quite a bit of difference in steep angles with the angle compensating? compared to measureing a straight line?

The angle compensation can be done by you in the field if you use a calculator or a shooting program. You will need a cosine/angle indicator that mounts to your rifle. It does make a difference in the angle. If you find yourself shooting a steep angle, it actually shortens the distance the bullet needs to fly. For instance, a 220yd target I shoot at, has a .98 cosine. It shortens the distance to 215yds. Its only a drop of 5yds, but at longer distance, it can make a real difference.

Temperature will effect your drops. No some of that has to do with powder burn rate speeds at different temps. The other part has to do with air density.

Tank

 

[angus-5024]

If your looking at getting an angle/cosign indicator, i know that they can be just another $200 to throw onto the bill if you get the high end ones. Check out the horus vision device. It has a scope level with the same unit. Thats what I put on my rifles, at least until I can afford to go all out with the better ones. i think that they're about 70$ US. I highly recommend a scope level, even if you dont want the a/c indicator.

if you want to save some $$$ keep you stock. I have and .338 RUM XCR that after a good glass bedding job does really well. I now have three loads that shoot right around .6 MOA most days. Its actually my best shooting rifle.

As far as a range finder goes, just look around for a used lieca 1200. you should be able to find one around that $400 mark and they blow all the bushnell out of the water.

The last thing I will recommend is switching bullets, at least on elk. I have found the 225 sst's to be vey accurate, but not very good preformance wise once it hits the animal. I shot a buck this year @ 150 yards with the above rifle and I found the bullet in the hide about 20" back, stuck in the spine. Well at least the the majority of the jacket (the shot was straight on looking down at me). I would say make the switch over to Accubonds or Barnes TTSX. I would shoot the SST's for deer though, and use em up at the range... there economical.

 

[gphil]

so you gies dont think that information was true that for every 20 degrees farenheit change it moves your bullet a whole MOA up or down? I was just curious because it was a marine sniper that told my friend that and i was curous if you gies had heard that?

Im undecided on what all i will do for a rangefinder. I would like to get a leica but i cant make myself spend that much right now and I check the nickels worth every week and i never seem to see used rangefinders. how exacly does that angle compensating device work that you mount on your scope?

I was curous on peoples opinion on the sst's thats interesting. I thought that the accubonds looked like good bullets. Ive heard mixed thoughts on the barnes have you had good luck with them? how about swift scirocco's i thought those sounded like a good bullet too.