Need advice on dropping powder into large (magnum) cases, on a press.

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Max Heat, May 29, 2012.

  1. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

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    I'm having trouble finding what I need to make a powder measure work on a press, for charging RUM cartridges. What I can't seem to find, is a charging die (along with internal drop tubes) that will handle anything larger than .308 cases (.520"). This is my first foray into loading such large cases, and this is a problem that I was not expecting to have. I'm thinking that it shouldn't matter what brand of powder measure is used, as they should all be compatible, right? The problem seems to be with fitting the powder measure to the press. It obviously requires a die which RUM cases will fit into. But for some reason unknown to me, I seem to be coming up dry on that sort of die. Can anybody point me in the right direction, on where to find what I need?
     
  2. KRP

    KRP Well-Known Member

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    Dillon makes an adapter for 7/8x14 threaded measures and they make RUM sized powder dies also.
     

  3. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

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    Dillon, huh? I'll check it out. Thanks a lot.
     
  4. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    When I first started loading this was the way I went,

    At some point I discovered that mounting the/a powder measure on the press caused charge
    weight to vary because of the action of the press while loading.

    Also the other problem was that I could not see the powder go into the case and sometimes
    when removing the case I would disturb the clog and dump powder all over the press and
    loading bench.

    So I decided to seperate the powder measure and the press to resolve this problem.

    What I found was that all powder measures were not created equal. Another case of you
    get what you pay for. I tried all of the less expensive powder measures and they worked
    fairly well as long as you were consistant with your process. (Tap the knocker on the side
    of the measure the same way and number of times every time ETC).

    I finally found a straight forward powder measure that was consistant without tricks.
    and was happy with it.

    Some big cases required a double drop to reach the weight and then I found the best
    powder measure I have ever used that solved all of the shortcomings of the others.

    It is called a Harrell's It is the Premium model and will drop 120 grains of powder
    at a time. It has Clicks for adjustments(200) and each click is close to 1 grain.

    It also has a clear drop tube that allows you to see the powder as it goes in the case
    that is about 3" long.

    It is also mounted in Ball bearings and is the smoothest I have ever used.

    He is a great guy to do business with and will make you any size and length of drop tube
    you want.

    I do not own any stock or get a commission I just believe that when a great product comes
    along it should be shared with all.

    I know this did not answer your Question but I thought I would share my Experiences with
    you and maybe save you some time and money, and help to prodeuce better loads.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  5. MagnumManiac

    MagnumManiac Well-Known Member

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    I'll have to agree with J E Custom 100%.

    Usually the measure is just screwed into one of the stations on the press, most are threaded for 7/8"-14 threads.

    I, too, found that separating the powder measure and mounting it solidly on a stand to the bench gave me the most consistent charging, but I also use the 'swirl charge' method of pouring the powder charge. I dump from the measure into my scales poring pan, and then 'swirl' the charge into the case via a correctly sized funnel.
    This above method gives me the room to use charges of RE25 that would normally spill out when dumped 'as is' from the measure.

    The Harrel is quite expensive, I have one, but have found that my Redding 3BR is just as consistent and will meter most powders to +/- .1gr with the right technique.

    Cheers.
    gun)
     
  6. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    On an additional Note;

    I also found that using the press to seat primers was not the best way ether (No feel)
    for how tight the primer pocket was, so a bought a priming tool to perform that
    task also.

    Now I only use the press for decapping and sizing/loading. The press has so much mechanical
    advantage it is hard to feel operations that require little if any force and sometimes finesse.

    Also as I mentioned the Harrell's powder measure is expensive (Around $250.00) but I like the
    clear drop tube because I can see powder flow from the measure to the case.

    The Redding is a good measure and the Ohaus is also one of the better onesThat I have used.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  7. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

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    I have a Lee PPM on the way. I know it's not exactly top-of-the-line, but aside from a few die sets, mostly all of my reloading stuff is Lee. Plus, I also have a powder checking die on the way, so that will help ease my worries regarding too low/too high powder charges.

    I don't have the PM in my hands yet to be able to completely check it out, but the concern that I had/have from looking at pictures of powder measures is this:

    When at the top of the stroke, the RUM case protrudes up though the threaded hole, to about 1.35" past the top of the press. If a PM is threaded into the station's hole down to say, 1/2 the depth that the sizing die goes, the .54" diameter case will need to protrude 2.75" up into the PM. If the PM can handle a case of that diameter going that far up into it, then I obviously don't need to worry about using a powder "die".

    At this point, all I need is for someone to confirm that it will work. It's not easy to tell, just from looking at pictures of powder measures. That's why I was questioning it, thinking that maybe I was going to need some sort of additional die. If not, then it looks like I'm all set. Thanks!
     
  8. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

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    UPDATE: I haven't received the measure yet, but I am now just about 100% sure (from looking at pics) that I will definitely be needing an "intermediary" die, which has an ID that will handle RUM cases. The only one that I can come up with which conforms to that requirement is the dillon extra large powder die. But I'm not sure if the fit would be universal fit to powder measures OTHER than the 450/550/650 series dillon setups. For a powder die to have "universal" fit, it would need to have the top tapped out to 7/8X14 female for PM's to fit into, and 7/8X14 male thread at the bottom, to fit standard presses, correct?

    Can anyone say if the top of the DXLPD is properly threaded to fit standard powder measures? (I'm sure that the bottom thread is correct)

    If that is NOT the case, is any sort of adapter available?

    If THAT is not case, would it be soft enough to easily drill and tap it?

    On that same note (the "soft enough?" note), would I be better off just taking a regular size large rifle die that I KNOW will fit the PM, and drill (the bottom end of) it out just a bit (to 9/16, as I don't have a 35/64 drill bit), so the RUM cases will fit into it?
     
  9. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I'm pretty amazed at the lack of responses regarding this subject. I would have though that there WERE people who have already been though this, and know what is what. But if that isn't the case, I'll try to help others out by sharing what I have learned so far.

    The top of the dillon extra large powder die has exactly the same appearance as the top of the lee powder dies. But it isn't of large enough diameter to directly accept a powder measure having 7/8x14 thread. Then I saw a die that had what looks like a thread adapter (is it something that you would call a collet?) mounted to the top of it, by means of what looks like set screws (again, I am only looking at pictures). That looks like the last piece of the puzzle that I was looking for, to make everything fit together. Does anyone know what the correct name for that piece is?

    Once I have one of those, it looks like I should be good-to-go. Thanks.
     
  10. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

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    OK, I'm starting to get tired of having to update my own findings as the hardware arrives, having to retract what I said that I thought the situation was, before I actually had the pieces in had. With no one able (or maybe willing?) to set me straight on this stuff BEFORE I actually purchase something that I don't know for sure will fit/work for what I am trying to do, I feel like the proverbial lab rat. But if it helps anyone ELSE out, I'm glad to do it.

    After I finally received the PM, I saw that the thread size is NOT 7/8x14. NOR is it 5/8x14, as I believe one poster did suggest. NOR is it 5/8x18, which is the size that the smaller, pistol-sized PM's (and dies) use. It mikes out to 5/8x12, which is very coarse for that diameter. But being that it is 5/8, means that it WOULD be able to fit into of a powder die WITHOUT any sort of collar fixed to it.

    Here I go making guesses/assumptions again, but this will be the last one (and I'm done): I haven't received the BIG die yet to verify a direct fit with the PM, but I'm now thinking that there are 2 standards for PM's & powder dies. The small capacity PM's used for small cases (as in pistol) have 18 pitch, which is what the small powder dies will accept. The large capacity PM's run 12 pitch, only allowing fitment onto/into large powder dies. I'm tempted to ask if anyone can verify this, but going by previous responses, I need not bother asking. But if this IS the case, THEN I'm good-to-go!
     
  11. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    I'm tagging this for intrest having huge issue's with my RCBS digital right now. Thinking about the Harrel but I just dont know. Love to here more from the owners and how it works with powders like H1000 and RUTUMBO.
     
  12. Max Heat

    Max Heat Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about the RCBS digital or the harrel (PM's, I presume). But for lee and compatibles, HERE is the deal, after I finally had the dillon XL powder die in my hand: First off, I believe that I need to make the following correction: The thread size of the lee perfect powder measure (and whatever else is compatible, if it is in fact, a "standard") apparently is 5/8x11 - NOT 5/8x12. Anyways, unlike the lee powder-through dies (which are threaded for the smaller capacity 5/8x18 thread disc type measure), the dillon XLPD is NOT threaded at all at the top, on the inside. But it does appear that the 3/4" bore in the top of the die WOULD be able to accept a pressed-in 5/8x11 thread INSERT. But instead of bothering to try to find such an animal, I decided to take a different approach. On the lee PPM (and presumably others), there is a knurled aluminum locking collar with an o-ring that tightens down on the horn at the bottom where the powder comes out, so it can be adjusted for correct height, depending on the length of the cases being charged. What I did, was turn down the bottom .15" of the collar, just enough to get a tight "press" fit into the top of the XL powder die. With adjustability at the outlet horn, and adjustablity of the the die itself in the press, I do believe that the setup is now universal, able to be adjusted for any size rifle case that needs to be charged - on the progressive press! There is one other thing that I think I should mention before closing out on this subject. Obviously, you could link the PM's "strokes" to the action of the press's strokes. But I don't advise doing that, if obtaining consistent, accurate powder drops means anything to you. These types of PM's provide maximum accuracy/repeatability when the handle/lever is given a somewhat quick, but solid (and consistent), "flick" up, given an adequate (and consistent) amount of time for the powder to fill the measuring chamber, then flicked back down (also in a repeatable manner) to fill the case. Obviously, the correct time to do this would be when you have the press at the top of it's stroke. -There you have it.
     
  13. flashhole

    flashhole Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you solved your problem. Do you shoot that many RUM rounds that you need to automate charging for high volume? This is what I do.

    [​IMG]

    That was a funnel I cut down that fits snuggly into the Lee Turret. More elegant is the Lee Powder Through Expander dies that accept the Lee Funnel. I just use a custom dipper cup when charging large cases instead of farting around with a powder measure. I make dippers from retired cases and they are very repeatable.