Need a new scope

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by Nimrod, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. Nimrod

    Nimrod Well-Known Member

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    I have a new .264WM project coming together and I need glass for it. I'm a huge Leupold fan but I do own a couple of other brands so I would consider something else. This rifle will most likely be used only for pronghorns and I hope to be proficient out to at least 800 yards with it. I'm trying to make it under 10 pounds ready to shoot. My absolute max budget for the scope and mount system is $1000.00. Right now I'm leaning toward a VX3 6.5-20 LR, EGW base and TPS rings.

    What are your thoughts?

    Bob
     
  2. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    Like you, I love Leupold scopes and have two MK4s on my longrange rigs. Both have the TMR reticle which is fantastic (especially for my tactical competition rifle). that said, my recommendation for you would be one of the Sightron SIII scopes with tactical turrets and an MOA reticle.

    With the tactical turrets there are no scope caps to lose or step on. And with the MOA reticle you will be able to easily measure corrections. What's more the glass clarity is great and their adjustments are sharp, reliable and repeatable.

    Sightron Riflescopes SIII Series SIIISS624X50LRMOA

    Sightron 6-24x50 SIII 30mm Riflescope

    As for rings and bases, look at Burris Signature Rings with the plastic inserts. I use them on all my rifles. They are rock solid and allow you to cant (tilt) your scope without having to use an expensive canted base. They are also much less expensive than most.
     

  3. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    I'm a Leupold fan too. Problem is, Leupold isn't a fan of pricing optics reasonably anymore.

    I don't see value for price unless of course you qualify under Leupold's program for a steep discount, then the optics are actually in line with price versus value received and candidly, I think the program is a crock of shitte.

    Why not just offer acroos the board pricing to everyone? What makes Leupold prejudiced toward the normal consumer. I won't be buying Leupold anything, again, ever, nothing.

    Far as Sightron, I know of 2 owners that had issue with BigSky scopes pertaining to elevation adjustment. Sightron replaced the units, but 2 and I know both of them.... Come on....

    I do want to know just how an owner sets the cant on a set of insert rings without binding and holding a set MOA incline? I'm a machinist, shop owner and I'm baffled by that statement.
     
  4. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    So rather than moan and groan, do you have a recommendation for the OP?

    Do a search for Burris Signature Rings and you will see how the inserts allow the scope to be canted without binding.
     
  5. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    My recommendation is........:)

    You already know what I prefer, it's well documented on this site...

    I don't care about advertising blather (concerning the ring sets), because it's nothing more than hype. I care less what the manufacturer says, I want to know what the end user says and how it's accomplished.

    I want to know how you achieve an accurate ring to ring, consistent cant without using a digital or vernier protractor (in as much as you don't know what the 10 or 15 or 20 or 25 MOA cant value is in a given constant length.... and without placing lineal stress on the erector tube....

    Please tell me, I'm all ears.

    Pe apprised, this is sa slippery slope....:)
     
  6. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    I always thought the sun rose and set in Leupold.....then I tried a Zeiss! And to boot its the bottom of the line Zeiss. Couldnt afford the top shelf models!!!
     
  7. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    6.5-20 Zeiss Conquest....EGW rail of your preference and for myself lately Ive been using Leupold QD rigs ( with the flip over levers)
     
  8. dirttyt

    dirttyt Active Member

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    Hey sidecar, dirtty here, maybe you remember me from previous posts??!! Anyway, as you know I am new to the lr scene, and I too bought into the hype of the burris Sig rings!!!

    Based on the the fact that I believe you know what you're talking about, your statement has me concerned that I might be screwing up!!!

    The way I understand it, and actually see it(since I actually have them) is when I use my 10, 20, ect insert in the rear ring the 0 insert in the front ring actually cants or rotates itself, then you tighten both rings and there is no bind on the tube.

    Now that last paragraph was more of a question rather than a statement of "I know what I am talkin about"!!! So please if you have any input, advice, or knowledge you care to share, I am all ears!!!

    Or anybody else that would care to chime in, feel free!!!
     
  9. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    I really have no input because I've never mounted anything with the(Burris) rings. I probably should go buy a set and fiddle with them.

    So I have to say, good luck. If they were so good, why isn't everyone using them??

    I guess my concept is you rotate the insert to give an approximate inclination and the clamp the upper halves to the lowers, is that correct? If so, what keeps the tube in alignment in relationship to the front ring versus the rear ring? If you rotate the insert and clamp the rear ring, leaving the front ring loose and then clamp the front, what aligns the front insert? There has to be a frictional resistance as the upper half is clamped. In my view, that resistance equates to misalignment and stress on the tube and we all know tube thickness isn't that great and it's usually aluminum and soft as in easily deformed.

    Bottom line. it's your scope. I'll stick with conventional rings and a cant rail that I can align ring set to ring set, line lap for contact and never be concerned about undue stress on the tube.

    If I was shooting a hundred yards, it's not an issue but 1000 yards and every discrepancy becomes an issue and a potential failure.

    I'm going to order a set and do some fiddling to satisfy my own curiosity.
     
  10. bruce_ventura

    bruce_ventura Well-Known Member

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    Daryl,

    I'm puzzled why you're puzzled about how the Signature rings work. Think pillow block bearings on a shaft and it should become clear.

    A shaft supported by two (misaligned) pillow block bearings has no stress and is held in alignment. The offset inserts are like shims that allow either pillow block to be offset left, right, up or down by a known amount. The spacing between blocks is known, so the offset amount needed to correct any alignment error is easily calculated. Does that help?
     
  11. T3-OleMan

    T3-OleMan Well-Known Member

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    Bob,

    If~n you want to see as good as an “antelope with night vision goggles” ….try a ZEISS.:)


    Rapid Z 800 would be good. Either the $1,000 or $2,000 version (+-).

    Good luck.
     
  12. joseph

    joseph Well-Known Member

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    This is the one I have mounted with a 20 MOA Picatinny rail made by EGW and Burris low Extreme Tactical rings plus a custom turret. I have cranked the turrets up and down hundreds of times and they have always been exact. I love this scope. :):):):)

    Vortex 6-24x50 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope

    Vortex Viper PST mounted with pics. - Georgia Outdoor News Forum

    joseph

    I even moved the scope with the same custom turret to my Browning Safari BAR 30-06 and it is sighted in all the way out to 400 yds. The trajectory is within 2 inches of my other rifle at 400 yds.
     

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  13. dirttyt

    dirttyt Active Member

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    I would hate to see you spend the money on a product you don't need, but I would love too hear about your results sidecar!!!

    Thanx for tryin to help explain more clearly Bruce, maybe the bearing will help draw a better pic for him! I really thought it was quite an innovative product, but I don't claim to know much more than the front of the gun from the back at this point in the lr game!!! Ha!!

    That is a really cool, and neat lookin wrap you have on that gun in the pic you sent Joseph!! What's it called, and who makes it??
     
  14. Nimrod

    Nimrod Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the replies so far gents! I actually e-mailed Leupold a couple of days ago and asked if they would extend their "professional" discount to retired military, no response so far.

    Flip, the Signature rings work on the same principal as the Messerschmitt bearing designed by the German engineer Willy Messerschmitt. They use eccentric inserts that rotate inside the rings until clamping force is applied. It would be difficult to torque a scope tube with them. I have several sets and have had good luck with them so far. The same principal as setting a sine bar to a given angle with space blocks.

    Keep it coming!